"I'm 52 years old, and in all my years..."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DLH17

My POV is "completely" off? Interesting. Not according to my assignor. He asks for 4 things from his officials: be on time = 15 mins early, call fouls/violations, don't say anything to anyone you don't want repeated and be in position to make calls = hustle.

Well he is wrong too. I have worked multiple games during the summer and off season and never had one assignor ever expect that the games be worked like a regular game. They certainly are not expecting us to report a foul or expecting switching on ever foul. Hell there are guys that do not even use all the signal mechanics and no one cares even the participants. I would be glad I do not work for the people you work for because I would not work for them if you are giving me 4 and 5 games in a row. Sorry, not happening.

Originally Posted by DLH17

re: you hustle more than me? what can i say other than, how would you know? i'm sure you are a stallion and can more than hold your own. as i've already said, don't take this personally. this thread wasn't designed with you in mind.

I used to work a league that used one man officiating. I used to sprint all over the court. There is a thread that is about one person mechanics and usually the recommendations are to run from 3 point line to 3 point line. I would go all over the court and never stopped anywhere and would officiate wherever I needed an angle. Then when I work games now, I sprint to get into position during live ball and have to do so more often if because these leagues do not always run standard offenses. Again, you keep talking about me as if I am responding to only what I do. You came on here talking like you are the one sitting the standard for everyone and because some people have taking you on then they are taking it personally. I find that rather interesting. If you did not want people to respond to what you had to say, why did you put it out there in the first place? My comments are not about me, my comments are about what is should be expected and you have every right to disagree.

I know a lot of officials across the country, not just here. No one I have ever come in personal contact with does what you suggest. Not a one. And that includes guys that work D1 and other levels when it comes to this issue. I have seen for myself guys work games that have a much bigger background in officiating than you or I and hardly run when working for $20. So I guess this is about them too because they would not achieve your standards too?

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

My perspective is as an assignor who has to find people to cover hundreds of these games on a weekend......

If I told my people that they had to treat each game like a good HS varsity contest while doing multiple games a day, I couldn't find enough people to cover a fraction of the games. You get what you pay for. And if you want to pay typical low rec rates, you're gonna bodies. It just ain't worth it for a lot of officials, especially when you factor in the abuse that you know the officials are going to get.

The people who put on these tournaments do so to make as much money as they can. Typically, they could care less about the quality of the officiating they receive. They just want coverage. And the know-nothing fans and coaches don't have a clue either whether they're getting a good or bad whistle. If every single call doesn't go their way, the officiating is terrible anyway in their minds.

The main reason that any official does these off-season games is M-O-N-E-Y! And that fits right in with the reason these games are being played in the first place. If you want professional officiating, then put on a professional show and pay the appropriate rates. If you want to run a typical AAU off-season run-and-gun tournament, then don't whine about the officiating that you gonna get. It matches the play.

It's nice to have lofty officiating ideals, but there's real life involved too.

JMO.

From my experience, this post by JR is extremely accurate.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well he is wrong too. I have worked multiple games during the summer and off season and never had one assignor ever expect that the games be worked like a regular game. They certainly are not expecting us to report a foul or expecting switching on ever foul. Hell there are guys that do not even use all the signal mechanics and no one cares even the participants. I would be glad I do not work for the people you work for because I would not work for them if you are giving me 4 and 5 games in a row. Sorry, not happening.

I'll be sure to let him know you said that being in position during tournament games that he schedules is not important. (blue font)

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I used to work a league that used one man officiating. I used to sprint all over the court. There is a thread that is about one person mechanics and usually the recommendations are to run from 3 point line to 3 point line. I would go all over the court and never stopped anywhere and would officiate wherever I needed an angle. Then when I work games now, I sprint to get into position during live ball and have to do so more often if because these leagues do not always run standard offenses. Again, you keep talking about me as if I am responding to only what I do. You came on here talking like you are the one sitting the standard for everyone and because some people have taking you on then they are taking it personally. I find that rather interesting. If you did not want people to respond to what you had to say, why did you put it out there in the first place? My comments are not about me, my comments are about what is should be expected and you have every right to disagree.

I'm not setting any standard(s)...just striving to work up to the level of more experienced officials and the example they set.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know a lot of officials across the country, not just here. No one I have ever come in personal contact with does what you suggest. Not a one. And that includes guys that work D1 and other levels when it comes to this issue. I have seen for myself guys work games that have a much bigger background in officiating than you or I and hardly run when working for $20. So I guess this is about them too because they would not achieve your standards too?

Peace

I work for more than just the $20. Since I don't know the same people you know, it's impossible to know why they do what they do the way they do it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I worked one years ago with the director of a rec league, who administrates for a living, but doesn't officiate.

Late in a game and during a time out, he comes to me and says, "Okay, number 20 has four fouls. Let's make sure the last one isn't a marginal one." I heartily explain to him that I never, ever want to know how many fouls a player has, because it can indeed compromise one's judgment and integrity.

"Well," he ponders as he looks away, "let's just agree to disagree."

Hmmm. fan comes out of the stands to talk to the referee? Sounds like an easy EJ to me. Don't care what your day job is - once the game starts everyone in the stands is just a fan.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Hmmm. fan comes out of the stands to talk to the referee?

No, this was my partner, who just filled in as an official.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by dlh17

these guys are getting paid the same game rate as they would for league games. Plus, they are doing a 4 or 5 game set, so it's a $100 day for them. They s/b hustling from the opening tip of game 1 to the final second of game 5.

Edit: I did 8 games sat and 8 games sun and never slowed down.

bs!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

bs!!!

+1

Not a very credible statement unless you're Superman.

[icallfouls]

I suppose that all 16 games were uphill, into the wind, the gym was a brick oven, there was no water except for what he squeezed from the blades of grass outside the gym between games where he would conduct wind sprints.

[MD Longhorn]

Basketball lurker, football/baseball/softball official here.

I've had many Saturdays where I worked 3-5 75-90 minute football games in the morning and a varsity game that night... or 3-5 60-75 minute softball or baseball games in the morning and a varsity or JV/Vars game at night.

I GUARANTEE you that I and 90% of the other officials I work with in the same boat did what they could to call a decent game but conserve their energy during those peewee or youth games so as to be truly ready for the later contests.

The other factor you're not getting is that when you pay low, the level of official you attract tends to be lower --- not a blanket statement regarding EVERY official you get ... but the average talent/effort is lower because those guys that naturally hustle every game are working somewhere else for more money.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

bs!!!

Which part?

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

I suppose that all 16 games were uphill, into the wind, the gym was a brick oven, there was no water except for what he squeezed from the blades of grass outside the gym between games where he would conduct wind sprints.

these games were last weekend at one of the nicer h.s. gyms in the area. the a/c was working just fine. free water for officials at the concession stand, as well. got to work in front of and talk to a few h.s. coaches, as well. neat deal.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by DLH17

got to work in front of and talk to a few h.s. coaches, as well. neat deal.

I see.
I am sure you will reap the appropriate rewards.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by DLH17

these games were last weekend at one of the nicer h.s. gyms in the area. the a/c was working just fine. free water for officials at the concession stand, as well. got to work in front of and talk to a few h.s. coaches, as well. neat deal.

So you are a suck-up.

So glad that the coaches have no say in the assignment process where I am.

Nothing worse than an official who caters to the coaches.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The other factor you're not getting is that when you pay low, the level of official you attract tends to be lower --- not a blanket statement regarding EVERY official you get ... but the average talent/effort is lower because those guys that naturally hustle every game are working somewhere else for more money.

Ding, ding, ding... what do we have for our winner, Johnny?

+1

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Local competitive leagues - 5/6 grade and 7/8 grade.

Originally Posted by DLH17

If you don't want to run your butt off and risk injury for a competitive tournament game, don't.

I think this discussion has more or less defined "hustle" for competitive tournament games, tho. And, it would obviously be something less than a Tues/Fri night boys big class varsity game.

No matter how you try to sugar coat it, it is still just a little kids game that is paying about half (or less) of the normal rate.

Originally Posted by DLH17

My POV is "completely" off? Interesting. Not according to my assignor. He asks for 4 things from his officials: be on time = 15 mins early, call fouls/violations, don't say anything to anyone you don't want repeated and be in position to make calls = hustle.

Yes, you're off.

Your biggest type of complaints in the early part of the thread seemed to be not switching and not coming to mid-court to report. Yet, the assignor's 4 items don't include anything about that. Not switching has nothing to do with being in position to make calls.

Originally Posted by DLH17

And, to be honest, I'm appalled by the lack of hustle and interest on the part of the officials working some of her games. Little to no switching, reporting from the baseline by the lead official, no bump and run.

While there are a few that probably don't hustle to be in position, most offiicals I know do hustle while the ball is live and cut the corners in the dead ball mechanics....the stuff that has basically no effect 99% of the time.