Perkins Ejection

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

I didn't like the T at all, Rush seemed to get personal about it. Looked like a "gotcha" call. Yeah, Perkins said it was a BS call, but he said it as he walked away. He never stared down Rush either. Did he flail his arms? Yes, but he did it as he walked away.
Its an emotional game, I bet Rush wishes he could have that one back.

Let me get this straight. I can say anything to you as I am walking away and that is OK? Can you show me any rulebook that says "Walking away" exonerates a person from unsportsmanlike penalty?

Originally Posted by tref

"The league will support the T in the interest of having a Game 7 in Orlando" - Tim Donaghy

Didn't Dave Stern suspend an official for the entire playoffs for giving a T to Tim Duncan a couple of years ago? I guess that squashes that reasoning.

Peace

[MathReferee]

Originally Posted by CLH

I don't really understand your reasoning behind all this. Please expound

I based that off the fact that they shot the technical, then ejected Perkins from the game. Unless I am completely mistaken there. From what I saw, Rush signaled the foul, signaled the technical, then turned around as Crawford administered the free throw. Then it looked like Washington walked up to Rush and they realized it was the second T on Perkins, and then ejected him from the game. So, the sequence was telling me he was not aware it was his second, hence the comment about assistance from the table crew .

As far as a second T needing to be more egregious than the first, I completely agree with you that it should not matter at all. A T is a T, no matter what the end result. However, seeing that this is the NBA, it has always appeared to me that the threshold for behaviour that earns a T is much higher. There is also a perceived pressure from the league to keep players in the game during playoffs (hence why I believe the T(s) will be rescinded today). That's all I meant by that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

I didn't like the T at all, Rush seemed to get personal about it. Looked like a "gotcha" call. Yeah, Perkins said it was a BS call, but he said it as he walked away. He never stared down Rush either. Did he flail his arms? Yes, but he did it as he walked away.
Its an emotional game, I bet Rush wishes he could have that one back.

Does this apply in other facets of life:

• Employee/Boss
• Student/Teacher
• Child/Parent

Me: Son, clean up that room or you're not hanging out with your friends tonight.

Son (flailing arms and walking away): That's bullsh!t.

Me: Give me your keys, you're not going anywhere for the next week.

Son (through bloody lip ): But Dad, I was only talking to myself, why are you punishing me?

[tref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me get this straight. I can say anything to you as I am walking away and that is OK? Can you show me any rulebook that says "Walking away" exonerates a person from unsportsmanlike penalty?

Absolutely not! But Perkins saying "that was a BS call" on a pretty borderline call is one that I'll eat. IMO, his demostrative body language was more disrespectful than his verbal. I allow coaches & players a bit more pushback on questionable calls. Now if that was a clear cut, no-brainer then yeah, whack & toss.

You're right the rulebook doesn't mention walking away AT ALL.

The rulebook does not say anything about managing the game either

I'm sure you know all about; the game within the game, managing emotions, effective communication, situational refereeing (having a feel for the game) & the like.

Imagine this, Rush calls the foul then goes tableside T. After Perkins antics, he speaks with Rush on the first of two FTs. Rush tells him what he had & adds, if you stomp off like that again & I'll be forced to whack you & that will be a DQ. Dont put me in that predicament.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Didn't Dave Stern suspend an official for the entire playoffs for giving a T to Tim Duncan a couple of years ago? I guess that squashes that reasoning.

Peace

I believe it was Joey, but that was a totally different sitch.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Does this apply in other facets of life:

• Employee/Boss
• Student/Teacher
• Child/Parent

+1

I don't see how walking away is relevant when you're cursing out an official. I was always taught to never do that.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

+1

I don't see how walking away is relevant when you're cursing out an official. I was always taught to never do that.

At the levels you possibly played, that was extremely wise of you sir!
On to the next

I hear what BNR is saying, but this is NOT a HS game! These are grown men, if you dont hear cursing every night in the league then you need to either invest in some higher quality electronics OR your speakers arent hooked up correctly.

In a student-athlete setting... yes!
In a professional, post-season, entertainment setting where you possibly called a ticky-tack on the losing team just before the half in a very emotional Game 5... ummmm NO!

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by tref

I hear what BNR is saying, but this is NOT a HS game! These are grown men...

I work with grown men, tref, and grown women.

Would you like to know the result if one grown adult cursed out his/her grown boss?

You can't use emotions to justify actions. If these are pros, they should act like pros.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Would you like to know the result if one grown adult cursed out his/her grown boss?

Not a good comparison. Players/Officials Neither is the others boss.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tref

Absolutely not! But Perkins saying "that was a BS call" on a pretty borderline call is one that I'll eat. IMO, his demostrative body language was more disrespectful than his verbal. I allow coaches & players a bit more pushback on questionable calls. Now if that was a clear cut, no-brainer then yeah, whack & toss.

You're right the rulebook doesn't mention walking away AT ALL.

The rulebook does not say anything about managing the game either

First of all bad analogy if you want to convince me that this should not be called. You just proved my point and probably did not realize it. You are right the rulebook says nothing about managing the game. So his comments got him popped desirably so. Also this has nothing to do with managing the game. For one you do not know the other interaction that went on the game and Ed T. Rush had enough. That is his right to do so.

Here is what you need to do, stop listening to the media for your opinion. You did not talk to Rush or any of the other officials. You have no idea what was said or not said and why this was ultimately a T. This might have been the last straw. I know I have given Ts for things that were not just based on the immediate outburst. I have given Ts because this was a long line of things and my warnings were not adhered to. And this is this player's 7th T during playoffs, so he must know what to do to avoid getting a T.

Originally Posted by tref

I'm sure you know all about; the game within the game, managing emotions, effective communication, situational refereeing (having a feel for the game) & the like.

I do know what game management means to me. But that does not mean that players can do whatever they like just because of the situation. And if a player does not want to get a T, they can keep their mouths shut and act appropriately.

It does not work that way. And if you knew that, then you would know that there is likely more to this call than what happen when the T was called. I have watched games in person while watching people I know officiate. Seen things called like a T, then not know what was said or the entire story until I talk to them after the game. Then the entire story or at least their story is part of the story, not what I assumed I saw or heard in incident.

Originally Posted by tref

Imagine this, Rush calls the foul then goes tableside T. After Perkins antics, he speaks with Rush on the first of two FTs. Rush tells him what he had & adds, if you stomp off like that again & I'll be forced to whack you & that will be a DQ. Dont put me in that predicament.

That is interesting. Perkins got a T earlier right? Do you know what the officials talked about earlier in the game? I know when a player is a problem, my partners are informed and what was said. And that player is not going to get a free shot the next time. And in some cases we might go into the game that the jag offs are and have less rope with them, because their pattern of behavior is such that we are not going to allow them to act up all night. Neither you nor I know what was talked about in pre-game, but the league or even during the game. You must not know what those things mean if you think this was just a standalone T. Remember, this player has 7 Ts during this post season alone. Someone thinks he has a problem.

Originally Posted by tref

I believe it was Joey, but that was a totally different sitch.

Not really.

[theboys]

Frankly, I'm growing weary of the constant whining with virtually every call made in the games. And, I'm beginning to believe its a rare NBA player who has actually ever committed a foul. Wasn't there an NBA poe a couple of years ago whose purpose was to stop all the moaning and groaning? It needs to be resurrected. Sheesh.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I work with grown men, tref, and grown women.

Would you like to know the result if one grown adult cursed out his/her grown boss?

You can't use emotions to justify actions. If these are pros, they should act like pros.

This IS professional basketball NOT professional bowling.

Lets get away from employee/employer relationships.

How about an adult gets pulled over by a cop (since we are more in that capacity). I'm sure "this is a BS ticket" will be handled in different manners based on the cop. Although some may arrest you for that, I'm sure the majority would just eat it.

[Welpe]

Let's see...suspended for his 7th technical in the playoffs. Maybe he shouldn't have earned his other six technicals as well. Unless they were "cheap" also...

[tref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also this has nothing to do with managing the game. For one you do not know the other interaction that went on the game and Eddie F. Rush had enough. That is his right to do so. .

Fixed that name for ya & so true!

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is what you need to do, stop listening to the media for your opinion..

Hey JRut, thats what I tell my wife when we're watching games!

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You did not talk to Rush or any of the other officials. You have no idea what was said or not said and why this was ultimately a T. This might have been the last straw. I know I have given Ts for things that were not just based on the immediate outburst. I have given Ts because this was a long line of things and my warnings were not adhered to. And this is this player's 7th T during playoffs, so he must know what to do to avoid getting a T.

True & great stuff! I understand.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by tref

How about an adult gets pulled over by a cop (since we are more in that capacity). I'm sure "this is a BS ticket" will be handled in different manners based on the cop. Although some may arrest you for that, I'm sure the majority would just eat it.

A fairer comparison, for sure. Although, off hand, I don't know the laws for cursing out a police officer. I'm sure they vary from place to place. In sports, they're considerably more clear.

IMO, it still comes down to choice of behavior. No matter where you are, if you control your emotions, you're far better off than vice versa. If sports indeed builds character (and reveals it, too), such building won't take place if we don't call each other on it.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And this is this player's 7th T during playoffs, so he must know what to do to avoid getting a T.

Or maybe not.....