What is that league teaching its officials?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CLH

From a previous Nevada post...."I'm no NBA rules expert..."

Yet now you know what matches and doesn't match the text of NBA rules. Make up your mind, either you know the rules and the league officials aren't matching it, or perhaps you don't know the NBA rules and guidelines. Therefore you are no different than the millions of fans who THINK they know what is right and wrong in an NBA game and therefore decide it best to run down the league and its officials. I would expect this to be a no brainer, but if you are in the vast minority of an opinion, chances are pretty good that you're incorrect...just something I learned growing up on the farm FWIW.

Do you think maybe he went to the rule and checked before making that statement? Maybe, just maybe?

Now, if you can show us in the text of the NBA rule where it says what Nevada claims it doesn't say.....

....I'll be surprised.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Do you think maybe he went to the rule and checked before making that statement? Maybe, just maybe?

Now, if you can show us in the text of the NBA rule where it says what Nevada claims it doesn't say.....

....I'll be surprised.

Nah...he wouldn't do that...it's easier to just find somthing to b*tch about!

[Nevadaref]

The NBA rules book is online and available for anyone to read for free. So I've read it, and very recently in fact. However, that no more makes me an expert on the subject than reading Hamlet would make me an expert on Shakespeare.

The video clips are also available for anyone to view, so I've watched them.

I and anyone else can see that what is shown in the video doesn't match what is written in the rules book.

I have no idea about their guidelines and the specific instruction which is provided to their officials. I'm not someone who receives that stuff.

I have never called a game using NBA rules. Therefore, I have no experience with judging plays under them.

My only claim is that what they are showing doesn't match what they have written and publicly distributed.

Perhaps Mark Cuban will return to the forum and we can ask him.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I've got a charge on this. The defender gets both feet on the floor in the path of the offensive player. Sure, he leaned a little. But he certainly did not create the contact, the offensive player barreled right through him.

I don't think you can have all of this and still not take the contact squarely in the chest. If the defender can make a play like this and have it called a charge, where would the line be drawn to make it a block? I think it would start to change from official to official, which brings me to my next point.

NBA officials might be highly "over-regimented", but they are way more consistent than high school or college officials. I think a high level of consistency is the goal - what makes up that consistency will forever be debated.

As a former Shaq fan (when he wore purple and gold) I would welcome all the calls against him when he allegedly runs someone over. However, then you would have to call all the fouls when someone is hanging off him. If this happened, he would shoot 20 free throws a game until an adjustment was made or he fouled out for running over people (whichever comes first). I think the end result would be 15 dunks per game for him; he can move his feet a little or at least he could in his younger days.

I'm in the camp that thinks it is hypocritical to say someone is dumping on college/high school officials then criticize NBA officials. I would hope the same people would be against politics in the work place, favoritism in associations, etc. since it is similar.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I'm in the camp that thinks it is hypocritical to say someone is dumping on college/high school officials then criticize NBA officials. I would hope the same people would be against politics in the work place, favoritism in associations, etc. since it is similar.

I agree with this statement the most.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Comprehend what Ive read? I stated (if YOU would comprehend what you read) that I dont post here too much but do lurk from time to time. So sorry, I havent read every word of every thread of NBA critiques.

Based on what I've seen here I think the criticism of NBA officiating (be it the officials themselves or the direction they are receiving) is overstated. And calling it NBE is childish, IMO.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I'll agree to disagree and leave it that. Have a great one.

Well, your opinion on this is misinformed. There is no general bashing of NBA officials in this forum. Sometimes an official will get criticized for a call, just like an NCAA or NFHS official will in these threads. You came into this thread talking about "NBA official bashing" yet there isn't a single post in this thread in which someone criticizes an NBA official.

As for the play in question, I have a block mainly because B2 slams his shoulder into A1's face. And this happens because B2 turns his body into A1 to initiate the contact.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well, your opinion on this is misinformed. There is no general bashing of NBA officials in this forum. Sometimes an official will get criticized for a call, just like an NCAA or NFHS official will in these threads. You came into this thread talking about "NBA official bashing" yet there isn't a single post in this thread in which someone criticizes an NBA official.

As for the play in question, I have a block mainly because B2 slams his shoulder into A1's face. And this happens because B2 turns his body into A1 to initiate the contact.

Fair enough.

As I said, I'm not on this forum too much. Perhaps my initial post was an overreaction. This past weekend I worked some AAU games with a friend of mine who is in the D-league and worked NBA games during the lockout in the pre-season. We discussed NBA officiating at length and when I came on here I saw this thread and remembered several others where there seems to be a lot of criticism of NBA officiating (overall not necessarily of individual officials). And I saw the constant references to NBE which IMO is very derisive.

So I said my piece. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I don't come on here to be antagonistic though I see how my initial post could be taken that way. This is good forum and though I'm not a regular here I do check in from time to time and find this place to be pretty informative. I still disagree with the way many people on here seem to characterize the NBA game and officiating but it is what it is and I'll move on.

[Altor]

I think, if you go back and look, the complaints are about the NBA "rules" and the way the officials are told to enforce them. They are complaints about the administration of the league and how it is not really basketball, but rather entertainment (à la WWE).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Altor

I think, if you go back and look, the complaints are about the NBA "rules" and the way the officials are told to enforce them. They are complaints about the administration of the league and how it is not really basketball, but rather entertainment (à la WWE).

You might be right in theory, but that still is a ridiculous characterization. Officials in all pro leagues are told to call things a certain way. Just like if you work in a D1 conference, you call the game how the supervisor wants you to or you do not work. And the WWE is completely made up and fake. Everything from what the individuals say to what punch is thrown is choreographed. The NBA is not that way and the rules are there to make the average person watch. They are not for us who work high school and college to approve. And by trying to get on the NBA for the rules, you can make the leap that the officials are not doing their jobs either. Do you think NFL officials do not call the game the way they are told? Now can people keep making that characterization? Of course this is a board that allows that thing. I just think it is sad that people get upset about one type of characterization and do not see the same thing in this characterization. Because the NF decided tomorrow to change the rules to some NBA rules, then we would have to deal with it or stop officiating basketball.

Peace

[Altor]

Your response still worries about what people say about the officials. That is NOT the basic complaint that I've read on this forum about the NBA. Most people agree that the officials are doing what they are asked to do. The complaint is that what they are asked to do by the league is not officiate basketball.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Altor

Your response still worries about what people say about the officials. That is NOT the basic complaint that I've read on this forum about the NBA. Most people agree that the officials are doing what they are asked to do. The complaint is that what they are asked to do by the league is not officiate basketball.

I get what you and others are saying and the criticism of NBA rules and the way officials are directed to call the games but I still agree with Jrut's post and think you may be missing our point a bit.

To compare the NBA to the WWE IS ridiculous. WWE is completely choreographed and is not real competition. It is purely entertainment. The NBA, regardless of what you think of the rules and their application, is a competitive professional SPORT. It's a very slippery slope when you make this comparison because it is not a far leap from what you are suggesting to then begin to say the competition is not real and that outcomes are fixed. Which, of course, is why Stern is so aggressive in fining players and coaches for their public comments about the officiating. When you state that what they are being asked to do is not officiate basketball you are also suggesting that they are complicit in whatever it is you think the NBA is other than basketball.

And they are officiating basketball. Just because you may not agree with all of the rules does not mean its not basketball. I think its very disingenuous to suggest that we, as high school and college officials, have this "true and pure" sport of basketball while the NBA is something foreign. The NBA is basketball played at the highest level. The rules are designed to create freedom of movement and allow players to display their talents and athleticism. Are there rules perfect? No. Are there things that people, including myself, dont agree with? Absolutely. But that is just our opinion, just like others may have opinions about some of the rules in college and high school.

This is what was behind my initial post. It just irritates the hell out of me when people constantly complain about NBA officiating and rules because it does not take long before all of the "entertainment" and conspiracy theory BS comes up.

[Tio]

Agreed...

We should be nothing but supportive of our colleagues regardless of the level they work.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why isn't the defender allowed to still be moving at the time of contact in this situation?

Because movement is a privilege of having LGP...which requires having already been in the path.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There doesn't appear to be any upward movement by the offensive player prior to the contact. Isn't the defender allowed to be moving, even by NBE standards, in the case of guarding an opponent moving on the floor?

Not unless they already established LGP...which I don't think this player did.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How much in the path of the opponent must he be? 100%, 90%, 80%, etc. If some of his body is in the path of the opponent, isn't he in his opponent's path?

More than getting his shoulder to the middle of the oppoenents torso while still moving in.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I've noticed from the videos on the website in which contact occurs on the side of the dribbler or the defender that these are labeled as blocking fouls.
However, no where in the text of the rules does it state this principle or articulate that the contact must be in the front of the torso for a charging foul. Perhaps that is the way that it is being taught at that level, but if so, the teaching doesn't match the text of the rules.

It is not about being on the side vs. front, it is about having the torso IN the path of the other player's torso....their (and many others') definition of the width of a player's "path" is obviously narrower than yours.

I don't see that this defender was ever in the path.

[bradfordwilkins]

WWE is completely choreographed

A little off topic -- but as a former professional wrestler (and theater major - so I know what choreographed is haha), I can attest to the fact that 95% of our matches are never "choreographed" -- the outcomes ARE decided and we'll talk through how the match will end so the "referee" knows when to count to 3.

So that's what I take from what people are saying on here when they call it NBE -- I think it is a slap in the face to our colleagues, essentially calling the league rigged and thus them cheaters. I know (or HOPE) that's not the intention -- but like you VATerp, thats how it comes across to me.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins

...but as a former professional wrestler ...

Did you ever "wrestle" anyone famous?