Wrong Number In Book ???

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Someone will have to provide the exact passage. I only have an older book handy (2008), and there's no 3.2.2C (b) in it.

BillyMac already did in post #17 above.

And look at the words used in both 3.2.2B in '08, and 3.2.2C in '09 - they specifically mention the terms "players" and "team members". That may be why the committee added 3.2.2C, to address how they wanted the rule to differentiate between the two.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

BillyMac already did in post #17 above.

Indeed so. Hmmmm.

Okay, so if the case book says this rule only applies to "players," why would you have the phrase "team members" in the rule? Also, the fact that 3.2.2C was different in 2007-08 (there was no (b)) tells me this is a recent change or clarification.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Indeed so. Hmmmm.

Okay, so if the case book says this rule only applies to "players," why would you have the phrase "team members" in the rule? Also, the fact that 3.2.2C was different in 2007-08 (there was no (b)) tells me this is a recent change or clarification.

There is a difference between the two. 4-34-1 tells us a "player" is one of the 5 team members who are legally on the court at any given time, except intermission. 4-34-4 tells us a "team member" is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

[bainsey]

I know the difference between the two, sir. Again, my question is, why would the rule even bother to use the phrase "team members," when the case book says it's only enforcable on players?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I know the difference between the two, sir. Again, my question is, why would the rule even bother to use the phrase "team members," when the case book says it's only enforcable on players?

A situation that may help to answer your question: B34 reports to the table to enter the game at the next opportunity. You call a TC foul on White12. As you finish reporting and are about to beckon the substitute onto the floor, the official scorer waves you over to the table and informs you that B34 is not in the book. At this point, B'c Coach can call B34 back to the bench and choose to not play him/her that night, thus evading the T. Or, B's Coach can ask the scorer to change B34 to the correct number - B35. At which point the book is changed and the T is administered.

When did B34/35 become a player? And yet the T was still administered because the book was changed after the 10 minute limit.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I know the difference between the two, sir. Again, my question is, why would the rule even bother to use the phrase "team members," when the case book says it's only enforcable on players?

Don't know sir, I wasn't in the room when they wrote it.

Maybe the committee felt it was more important, in this case, to penalize bookkeeping items involving players, rather than penalizing the team for a sub that may never get in the game. This may also be the reason they've gone from penalizing each infraction within a category to simply one penalty within that category.

Rocky also gives a good example of why it's good to know the definitions, the difference between the two, and when one status ends and the other begins.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I know the difference between the two, sir. Again, my question is, why would the rule even bother to use the phrase "team members," when the case book says it's only enforcable on players?

Where does the case book say "only players?"

The case book is used to give examples of a rule or a portion thereof. Even if all the cases deal with "only players," the fact that the term team members is a part of the rule tells us that this is also a possibility.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Where does the case book say "only players?"

If the case book says the rule is only enforcable when someone is on the floor, and not on the bench, that meets the definition of "player."

[Nevadaref]

Situation: Team member A31 is sitting on the bench. He has not played so far in the game. During the 2nd quarter he yells at an official about a foul call and is assessed a technical foul. It is now discovered that he is incorrectly listed in the scorebook as A33. How do you handle this?