Unapproachable Coach vs. Unapproachable Ref

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rut:

It is obvious that you didn't have an Italian for a father, .

MTD, Sr.


P.S. My father passed ten years ago, and I bet our fathers are watching us from upstairs.

Let me let you in on a little secret. My father was not Italian, but my father did not need to say anything to get a point across. I will let you figure out what that means.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

my two cents worth...after you talked to the kid the first time about entering the game, a simple comment to the coach like: "coach - can you help me w/ #12? he simply runs into the game before he's called. i've talked w/ him about it, but i'm not sure he gets it. thanks!"

when you tell the coach each time you have to warn a player about something important, it gives you 3 big benefits: 1) you get the coach to help you stop whatever the issue is (you're working together); 2) the coach sees you warning his players rather than whacking 'em right away; and 3) you're communicating w/ the coach (which they always like) in a non-argumentative/confrontational way

now, when you have to penalize the next time, the coach already knows this is an issue and probably won't be surprised when you assess the T. his frustration will be directed at the player ("not only did the ref tell you about that, but I did too!").

just a thought...

I'm all for doing this, but I'm not going to let a coach think the warning is required. Any level above this, and there's not going to be a warning at all, even to the player.

In all honesty, my response to the coach when he complained that I hadn't warned him would have been, "Coach, the warning to your player was a courtesy not required by rule."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm all for doing this, but I'm not going to let a coach think the warning is required. Any level above this, and there's not going to be a warning at all, even to the player.

In all honesty, my response to the coach when he complained that I hadn't warned him would have been, "Coach, the warning to your player was a courtesy not required by rule."

I am not a fan of going to coaches and telling them things they can see. If I am talking to one of their players they should have some idea that their kid is under some kind of notice.

I personally think we do way too much talking to coaches about things we do not have to. I do not have to explain anything; we do that out of courtesy. If a player violates the rule, it is up to use to enforce it or find another way. Coaches should know the rules so they are not surprised when they are penalized.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I personally think we do way too much talking to coaches about things we do not have to.

Agree. And coaches are talking to us about things that they don't have to also. And most of those comments don't deserve a response.

If it's a direct question, fine. If it's a comment, there's no need for an explanation. They weren't really looking for one anyway. They're just planting a seed.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Agree. And coaches are talking to us about things that they don't have to also. And most of those comments don't deserve a response.

If it's a direct question, fine. If it's a comment, there's no need for an explanation. They weren't really looking for one anyway. They're just planting a seed.

+1
You veteran guys have said that here time and time again.
It's one of the biggest things I learned here on the board this past year (my second season), understanding the difference helped me immensely in my game management skills.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not a fan of going to coaches and telling them things they can see. If I am talking to one of their players they should have some idea that their kid is under some kind of notice.

I certainly agree, but that's assuming the coach sees us talking to the kid. His attention could very well be elsewhere.

I had a coach suggest jeffpea's approach to me one time, after a freshmen boys game where I had three plane violations (two on one team, one on the other). I was a bit amazed that he even made an issue of that (these were high school players, after all), since there are middle schoolers out there that know not to break the plane! Still, I listened to his feedback, and kept it in the back of my mind. That coach still hired me for another freshman scrimmage, anyway.

I used the "Coach, can you help me out?" approach once after that, but it was regarding an assistant coach issue, not a player. That assistant -- who seemed a bit more domineering than the head -- insisted on standing a few times to give instructions. I don't recall seeing him on his feet after I spoke with the head.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I certainly agree, but that's assuming the coach sees us talking to the kid. His attention could very well be elsewhere.

You are right, but it is more their responsibility to know what is going on with their players and to tell their players the right things, then it is for me to explain a violation of the rules to a coach every time it happens.

Originally Posted by bainsey

I had a coach suggest jeffpea's approach to me one time, after a freshmen boys game where I had three plane violations (two on one team, one on the other). I was a bit amazed that he even made an issue of that (these were high school players, after all), since there are middle schoolers out there that know not to break the plane! Still, I listened to his feedback, and kept it in the back of my mind. That coach still hired me for another freshman scrimmage, anyway.

I used the "Coach, can you help me out?" approach once after that, but it was regarding an assistant coach issue, not a player. That assistant -- who seemed a bit more domineering than the head -- insisted on standing a few times to give instructions. I don't recall seeing him on his feet after I spoke with the head.

All I am saying is that you have to decide what really works for you. I like to be treated a certain way and if I am not, I am not talking to a coach. When they are reasonable, I have no problem talking. When they are acting like they got no sense, I do not want to talk to them. I would rather not talk to a coach that is flying off the handle than give them a T for their behavior if I can. Remember we are not dealing with rational and calm people. And if they do not know how to be that way, I would prefer not to talk to them. What others do is alright with me. You have to do what works for you anyway.

Peace

[Tio]

I like what Jeff Pea said, to add to it I find that when you engage the kid and explain that you need his help. Most of the time, the kids are just excited to be heading into the game and dont' realize what they are doing.

If you clearly have a bad citizen who is intentionally defying you....

Try this... Don't let the kid come into the game at the given deadball. I promise, he will properly report the next time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I like what Jeff Pea said, to add to it I find that when you engage the kid and explain that you need his help. Most of the time, the kids are just excited to be heading into the game and dont' realize what they are doing.

If you clearly have a bad citizen who is intentionally defying you....

Try this... Don't let the kid come into the game at the given deadball. I promise, he will properly report the next time.

Where's you rule backing for this?

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

my two cents worth...after you talked to the kid the first time about entering the game, a simple comment to the coach like: "coach - can you help me w/ #12? he simply runs into the game before he's called. i've talked w/ him about it, but i'm not sure he gets it. thanks!"

when you tell the coach each time you have to warn a player about something important, it gives you 3 big benefits: 1) you get the coach to help you stop whatever the issue is (you're working together); 2) the coach sees you warning his players rather than whacking 'em right away; and 3) you're communicating w/ the coach (which they always like) in a non-argumentative/confrontational way

now, when you have to penalize the next time, the coach already knows this is an issue and probably won't be surprised when you assess the T. his frustration will be directed at the player ("not only did the ref tell you about that, but I did too!").

just a thought...

Appreciate the feedback jeffpea...that's an excellent suggestion.

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not a fan of going to coaches and telling them things they can see. If I am talking to one of their players they should have some idea that their kid is under some kind of notice.

I personally think we do way too much talking to coaches about things we do not have to. I do not have to explain anything; we do that out of courtesy. If a player violates the rule, it is up to use to enforce it or find another way. Coaches should know the rules so they are not surprised when they are penalized.

Peace

Yeah...I like your words....I'm not big on hand holding....the way I grew up EVERYONE is accountable for their own actions.

And I don't ever remember my father yelling at me...but he had my FULL attention....still does!