Unapproachable Coach vs. Unapproachable Ref

[tref]

Originally Posted by Da Official

While that was the highlight of my evening, what could I have done better here?

I dont know what exactly was said in your pre-game, but the following statement from the coach leads me to believe maybe it was too much???? JMO

Originally Posted by Da Official

Coach: "Well before the game you said to keep communication lines open...but you didn't communicate with me. You didn't keep your word....you didn't keep your word."

Personally, I've found "less is more" to be quite accurate. The more we say in pre-game, the more ammunition we give coaches to use on us.

I'm sure we've seen the ol "we're gonna let em play" & "we're gonna work hard for you" lines come back to bite us in the behind.

Working a mens league the other night & my partner chose to have pre-game meetings with the teams individually. Needless to say, I chose not to take part of THAT. Apparently he told them we were going to let them play like men. 3 minutes in he has a ticky-tack & guess what the players said...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Since you asked for feedback here are something to consider. In a situation where the coach wants an explaination try saying something along the lines of "I gotcha coach, let me take care of this first and then we can chat." This let's the coach know that you are willing to talk to them, but also letting them know that you have other responsibilities. It is a small change but you the way you phrased it may have been interpreted as brushing him off.

Let me play devil's advocate for a second. I have told coaches that very thing and because the explanation was not coming as fast as they wanted, it did not matter how nice you were to them in explaining you will come when you get a chance.

Originally Posted by Judtech

When he questioned why he didn't get a warning I would have left off the second half of your statement. Basically, he asked a question and all you have to do is answer it. "Why didn't I get a warning" "Coach, I don't have to give you a warning" and let it go at that. Anything more you might come across as a bit snarky.
As for the rest of his comments, I would have had to put the sarcasm filter on high for me and just walk away with a smile.
Not trying to come down on the way you handled it. Just trying to pass on some things I have had to work on.

There would be some that would get upset with you if you told them "I do not have to give you a warning." Not to say that is the wrong thing to say, but having said that I have gotten some flack because I was not willing to give a reason "why" every time something happened.

Now I am just saying this to illustrate how different people deal with different situations. And even how you can have the best intentions and have the worst a-hole coach still overact. This is also why a lot depends on your demeanor, your physical appearance, your tone in your voice, your body language or even the way you look at the coach. And considering this is a "wreak" game, I am sure this coach probably is not that experienced in his role as a coach. And maybe has not been through the training himself to know what to do and how to react to officials and get the appropriate response from them too. Also none of us where there and we really do not know how calm or unreasonable the coach was or even the official in this case. This is why this is the hardest part to teach officials and much of what they learn comes through much trial and error.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

i dont know what exactly was said in your pre-game, but the following statement from the coach leads me to believe maybe it was too much???? Jmo

personally, i've found "less is more" to be quite accurate. The more we say in pre-game, the more ammunition we give coaches to use on us.

+1

[rockyroad]

Rule of thumb: A reasonable question gets a reasonable response.

The games where I have been accused of being "unapproachable" were times when that particular coach was a stark, raving lunatic. So no, I didn't even try to communicate with them after the first few minutes.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

OTOH, there are some coaches with whom we just cannot communicate because they're expectations from the communication are unreasonable.

I thought that coaches were people. Now you are telling me that they are classified as expectations. No wonder so many officials have trouble dealing with them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I thought that coaches were people. Now you are telling me that they are classified as expectations. No wonder so many officials have trouble dealing with them.

shut up

(fixed it)

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Since you asked for feedback here are something to consider. In a situation where the coach wants an explaination try saying something along the lines of "I gotcha coach, let me take care of this first and then we can chat." This let's the coach know that you are willing to talk to them, but also letting them know that you have other responsibilities. It is a small change but you the way you phrased it may have been interpreted as brushing him off.
When he questioned why he didn't get a warning I would have left off the second half of your statement. Basically, he asked a question and all you have to do is answer it. "Why didn't I get a warning" "Coach, I don't have to give you a warning" and let it go at that. Anything more you might come across as a bit snarky.
As for the rest of his comments, I would have had to put the sarcasm filter on high for me and just walk away with a smile.
Not trying to come down on the way you handled it. Just trying to pass on some things I have had to work on.

Thanks for the feedback, JudTech! I am satisfied how I handled the situation BUT I know there were better ways to deal with this coach which is why I asked the group.

You bring up a good point about the "warning" dialogue and I neglected to state that I answered just as you advised the 1ST time he asked "Why didn't I get a warning". By the time the coach asked the 2nd or 3rd time was when I GAVE IT to him and told him to pick up a rulebook. LOL!

And don't worry I allowed him to get the last word in....

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by tref

I dont know what exactly was said in your pre-game, but the following statement from the coach leads me to believe maybe it was too much???? JMO



Personally, I've found "less is more" to be quite accurate. The more we say in pre-game, the more ammunition we give coaches to use on us.

I'm sure we've seen the ol "we're gonna let em play" & "we're gonna work hard for you" lines come back to bite us in the behind.

Working a mens league the other night & my partner chose to have pre-game meetings with the teams individually. Needless to say, I chose not to take part of THAT. Apparently he told them we were going to let them play like men. 3 minutes in he has a ticky-tack & guess what the players said...

Good point tref! Basically what I tell the rec coaches during our REQUIRED pregame by the league.....is that if they have a question during the game, ask and talk to us in the same manner we are talking right now, let's not yell so that way we can keep the lines of communication open.

I never promised to hold his hand, talk to him about every call before I made it or be the godfather to his children, I just asked for respect (which I know we will rarely get but can be earned by a few technicals).

I appreciate the feedback!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

shut up

(fixed it)

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"Communication is still open, coach. You'll just be talking from ???, instead of out of, your a$$."

Perhaps you'll get around to fixing this one too.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Perhaps you'll get around to fixing this one too.

It was worded correctly, but I'll word it differently now to help you.

"You'll just be talking from your a$$ rather than out of it."

I can make it more simpler if you need.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It was worded correctly, but I'll word it differently now to help you.

"You'll just be talking from your a$$ rather than out of it."

I can make it more simpler if you need.

Oh, it's a seat belt joke. How quaint.

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by tref

I dont know what exactly was said in your pre-game, but the following statement from the coach leads me to believe maybe it was too much???? JMO



Personally, I've found "less is more" to be quite accurate. The more we say in pre-game, the more ammunition we give coaches to use on us.

I'm sure we've seen the ol "we're gonna let em play" & "we're gonna work hard for you" lines come back to bite us in the behind.

Working a mens league the other night & my partner chose to have pre-game meetings with the teams individually. Needless to say, I chose not to take part of THAT. Apparently he told them we were going to let them play like men. 3 minutes in he has a ticky-tack & guess what the players said...

Thats the problem with that kind of statement. We may have differences as to what "letting them play like men" means.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I am a grown *** man and my father died almost 15 years ago and he did not even talk to me that way.

Rut:

It is obvious that you didn't have an Italian for a father, .

MTD, Sr.


P.S. My father passed ten years ago, and I bet our fathers are watching us from upstairs.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rut:

It is obvious that you didn't have an Italian for a father, .

MTD, Sr.

MTD, I grew up right next to an Italian neighborhood on the south side of Chicago and I had a lot of Italian friends (like Silvio and Silvario). You're right. That's the way their dads yelled, er, I mean talked.

You might get a kick out of this. Silvio had red hair and freckles, far from "typical" Italian looks.. All the guys used to say he looked just like his mailman. We never said it around him, because his brother worked for the mob. We were told his job was doping racehorses. Not kidding.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by Da Official

.... what could I have done better here? Mind you I had no trouble with the guy before or after this incident. My thinking for the Technical is its obviously in the rulebook BUT sometimes experience is the best lesson....I'm sure the kid and the coach will wait for the official to call em in next time.

my two cents worth...after you talked to the kid the first time about entering the game, a simple comment to the coach like: "coach - can you help me w/ #12? he simply runs into the game before he's called. i've talked w/ him about it, but i'm not sure he gets it. thanks!"

when you tell the coach each time you have to warn a player about something important, it gives you 3 big benefits: 1) you get the coach to help you stop whatever the issue is (you're working together); 2) the coach sees you warning his players rather than whacking 'em right away; and 3) you're communicating w/ the coach (which they always like) in a non-argumentative/confrontational way

now, when you have to penalize the next time, the coach already knows this is an issue and probably won't be surprised when you assess the T. his frustration will be directed at the player ("not only did the ref tell you about that, but I did too!").

just a thought...