Coming in on partners call

[Texas Aggie]

There are times an official is 110% sure he's correct and I'm 110% sure he's wrong.

This is contradictory and impossible. While I know what you think you are saying, my definition of 110% sure is that there is no way you are wrong. You saw the entire thing -- the ball hit the arm, then the floor with clearly nothing in between and your partner was probably blocked out.

But even if you are correct, I contend it is better to change the call and be wrong than it is to stay with a wrong call when someone came in. In the former, I can always say something like, "coach, I came in based on what I saw that I was sure about but unfortunately missed a small important detail." In other words, "coach, we missed it, after making a big effort to get it right." In the latter, you are basically left with saying something to the effect of, "coach, I decided to stay with a wrong call even though he had it correct and tried to convince me." In other words, "my ego is more important than getting the call right." Like it or not, that's exactly what it says when you don't change a call when your partner comes in.

Even when that isn't the case, what do you tell a coach who asks you why your partner didn't change the call that you went in on him to correct? Your answer will be something like, "coach, he said he saw something I didn't see and I agreed, so we left it there." Then, the coach will say something like, "then, why in the hell did you go in on him in the first place if not to correct it, if you didn't have all the facts yourself?" At this point, the coach is reasonable in wondering if either one of us know what's going on.

On the other hand, you can always tell the coach that we change calls when our partners come in because our partners never come in unless they are 110% sure. End of discussion.

Either way, concerning your point, I am not coming in on you (and likewise, per our pregame) unless there is NO WAY I am wrong.

Now that I think about it, this has a bit of game theory ring to it! Any Economics gurus out there?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

This is contradictory and impossible. While I know what you think you are saying, my definition of 110% sure is that there is no way you are wrong. You saw the entire thing -- the ball hit the arm, then the floor with clearly nothing in between and your partner was probably blocked out.

It is only contradictory and impossible if you think that there is no chance you can be 110% sure of being right while empirical evidence (such as video) proves that you are completely wrong. And that's not possible. We all make mistakes.

As for the rest of your post, you act like we owe detailed explanations to coaches. They can think what they like. In the meantime, we've already put the ball back in play and they'd better go back to coaching. I'd rather get the call right, regardless of what they think of me.

[refesq11]

The "game management" situation happened to me earlier this year. I'm T, rebound after a missed shot high in the air, goes off of white. Partner, L, points white ball. I hit the whistle once -- go to her -- told her what I saw, and she told me she passed on a black foul and was thus going to stay with white ball. Nothing more for me to do at that point other than go calm down black's coach. (All I told black's coach was that we saw it differently and the L was staying w/ her call. Coach accepted it ----- luckily).

Two other points: (1) white the Cahill "information giving," while correct and the absolute right thing for the game, it didn't "look" too good because of how strong the C gave the original OOB call. Of course, it would have "looked" even worse had Cahill not come in. (2) I'm a Pitt fan living out west -- it was a horrible call by Cahill and Pitt got jobbed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by refesq11

All I told black's coach was that we saw it differently and the L was staying w/ her call. Coach accepted it ----- luckily.

Just a suggestion...take it fwiw.

No need to say that you "saw it differently". Just say something neutral like "I checked to make sure we both were on the same page". You never want to leave the impression that you disagreed with one of your partner(s) calls.

You were lucky that the coach accepted that. A lot of coaches wouldn't as soon as they found out that you disagreed with your partner's call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

As for the rest of your post, you act like we owe detailed explanations to coaches. They can think what they like. In the meantime, we've already put the ball back in play and they'd better go back to coaching. I'd rather get the call right, regardless of what they think of me.

+1...solid, veteran move imo.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

1) But even if you are correct, I contend it is better to change the call and be wrong than it is to stay with a wrong call when someone came in. In the former, I can always say something like, "coach, I came in based on what I saw that I was sure about but unfortunately missed a small important detail." In other words, "coach, we missed it, after making a big effort to get it right."

2) In the latter, you are basically left with saying something to the effect of, "coach, I decided to stay with a wrong call even though he had it correct and tried to convince me." In other words, "my ego is more important than getting the call right." Like it or not, that's exactly what it says when you don't change a call when your partner comes in.

1) Change the "we" to "I". You're the one responsible for screwing up the call, not your partner(s). If you want to be the one to change a correct call, you had better be be ready to take the sole blame.

2) That's ridiculous. No real official would ever dream of making a nonsensical statement like that to any coach. Or at least I hope that they wouldn't.


Let the official who is responsible for making the call make the call. It's only been that way...oh...forever....and for very good reasons. If we can't trust each other, who can we trust? If a coach does ask what the conference was about(and he'll have to ask because if the conference was done properly...quietly and with no signals given...he won't really be sure what you were discussing), you simply say "We were just making sure we got the play right". End of discussion.

Disagree completely with your association's local mechanic.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

... If a coach does ask what the conference was about(and he'll have to ask because if the conference was done properly...quietly and with no signals given...he won't really be sure what you were discussing), you simply say "We were just making sure we got the play right". End of discussion.
...

EXACTLY!!! Short and simple. Why would a non-calling official feel the need to say anything more?