Pregame dunking - is it being well enforced?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If they don't touch the rim, it's not a dunk.

That statement is 100% wrong. JR will be along shortly to tell you the same.

Where in 4-16 does it mention anything about the ring?

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My second year in Wisconsin, I had a coach who wanted me to call this cause a player would drop/lightly push it down (he was almost 7 feet tall and would still have six inches between his hand and the rim). After a couple times of him whining, I told him "that's not a dunk, drop it". When I went to the table, he came over with a rulebook and dropped it on the book I was signing.

Sorry, Rich, but you got what you deserved. The coach had every right to be upset that you were using your own personal standard instead of the NFHS rules book definition. The coach may have been a jerk, but he was also correct about the rule.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That statement is 100% wrong. JR will be along shortly to tell you the same.

Where in 4-16 does it mention anything about the ring?


Sorry, Rich, but you got what you deserved. The coach had every right to be upset that you were using your own personal standard instead of the NFHS rules book definition. The coach may have been a jerk, but he was also correct about the rule.

Predictable. Out of touch with reality, but predictable.

[Nevadaref]

A typical response from someone who is unwilling to admit that he doesn't know the rule. Obviously, it is hard to accept after so many years of thinking a certain way that one's belief is false. Some people just aren't able to deal with it.

The bottom line is that touching the ring has absolutely nothing to do with the NFHS definition of dunking. The sooner that you come to grips with that the better.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A typical response from someone who is unwilling to admit that he doesn't know the rule. Obviously, it is hard to accept after so many years of thinking a certain way that one's belief is false. Some people just aren't able to deal with it.

The bottom line is that touching the ring has absolutely nothing to do with the NFHS definition of dunking. The sooner that you come to grips with that the better.

Predictable. Funny....and predictable.

Do the concept of "spirit and intent" even exist in your world?

[just another ref]

Gotta back Nevada on this one. Touching the rim has no part in the definition.
On the other hand, the limiting factor is physics. It is pretty near impossible to perform a dunk without touching the rim. If this guy was in fact dunking without touching the rim, (driving, forcing, pushing or attempting to force a ball through the basket with the hands) he is either an extremely gifted athlete, or the dunks weren't much, as dunks go.

By Rich's own description, dropping, lightly pushing down, I might very well agree that they weren't dunks, but the lack of touching the rim alone is not what makes that true.

The key, as I read the definition, is pushing through the basket, which means pushing down. Saw a highlight recently where a player, I think it was Tyrus Thomas, threw it down through the basket even though he released the ball several feet in front of the rim. Was this a dunk? I think so.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I can't say, JR. I was not one of the three officials for that contest.

If you really desire an answer to your question and are not just trying to ruffles feathers, then I suggest that you contact the Section 7 representative on the NFHS rules committee as he was sitting courtside.

No, I was honestly wondering whattheheck happened. Not to the point of doing that much digging though.

Was there an old thread on this that I missed or forgot about?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1) That statement is 100% wrong. JR will be along shortly to tell you the same.

2) The coach had every right to be upset that you were using your own personal standard instead of the NFHS rules book definition. The coach may have been a jerk, but he was also correct about the rule.

1) Nevada is technically correct. The ring doesn't enter into the determination of whether the ball was dunked or not.

2) That I disagree with. Lightly pushing the ball down doesn't equate to driving and/or forcing the ball through the basket imo. It's about the same as following through with your hands on a lay-up. From Rich's description, I'd never call sumthin' like that either.

Fwiw the only part of Rich's original post that I disagree with is that small bit about the rim. Everything else is spot-on imo.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Uhm....OK?

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Is Texas the only state where the pregame whistle is sounded?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Nevada is technically correct. The ring doesn't enter into the determination of whether the ball was dunked or not.

2) That I disagree with. Lightly pushing the ball down doesn't equate to driving and/or forcing the ball through the basket imo. It's about the same as following through with your hands on a lay-up. From Rich's description, I'd never call sumthin' like that either.

Fwiw the only part of Rich's original post that I disagree with is that small bit about the rim. Everything else is spot-on imo.

For what it's worth, I'm too smart to mention the rim to the coach, as I do know the rule. I simply said, "that's not a dunk." At one point, I finally said, "that's not a dunk, turn the page." Then, after the captains meeting (which we do at 12 minutes at Wisconsin), I went to the table and checked/signed the book, which is when he came over and dropped the rule book on top of the book.

How could anyone with a straight face consider it a dunk when the player's hand never came closer than six inches from the basket and he essentially lightly threw it through? If he's controlled enough not to bring his hand down, is he really forcing it through?

I call about 10 games a season where a handful of players on each team is capable of bringing the board down. If one of them clearly dunks, I would call a technical foul without hesitation. But in a situation where it would be up to interpretation of what is and what isn't a dunk (even by the 3 officials on the game)? No freaking way. There is something to be said for being smarter than that.

[BillyMac]

Most players in my little corner of the Constitution State know enough to just "drop" (just release, not push downward) the ball into the basket while having one, or both, hands directly above the center of the rim. It sends a message to the other team that, "Hey. Look at me. I can dunk if I wanted to but I don't want to start the game with a technical foul". Occasionally a player will put a little finger pressure downward on the "drop" which will get him, or her (just kidding), one, and only one warning, "Hey. Be careful. No dunking", as they pass by us in the layup line. Twenty-nine years. No pregame dunking T's in a high school game. Many in AAU, recreation, travel, and men's league games, but high school players, and coaches, around these parts understand the rule and abide by it.

[JRutledge]

I tell players to stay from up there when they are getting close. So I do not have to even have that type of conversation with the coach that thinks they know the rule or what I should or should not rule. They would have to really make an effort for me to call a dunk in the pregame if the rim was not touched.

Peace