Need help on live enforced as dead

[Kelvin green]

I am having a ...momemt...

I cant find the plays (case book) or the rule that deal with the live ball penalty enforced as a dead ball. We had a game today where runner had broken for TD... 20 yards behind the play was a personal foul...

We enforced it as live ball enforced as dead but coach wanted to argue (he came back game later with rule books in habd to argue). I need to file game report rto league but cant find my rule backing... I know it;s there I am just havcing one of theose moments (NFHS rules)

Thanks for the helps

[daggo66]

The only live ball penalty that can be enforced as a dead ball penalty is USC. What you wanted to do is call that play a dead ball. Your only choice in not bringing that ball back was to say that the penalty occured after the TD. If it was obvious to everyone in the stadium that it happened before the TD then you are SOL.

[ljdave]

Not digging in the rules book here, but I believe since you had a PF, and not a USC, regular enforcement applies. If it's a foul on A, basic spot is the spot of the foul; if it's a foul on B, then follow succeeding spot enforcement on a scoring play (i.e. A can take the foul on the try or the K.O.). Had it been a USC, then you enforce from the succeeding spot. Look in rule 10 under "Basic Spot"; should say that USCs are always enforced from the succeeding spot.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by ljdave

.... If it's a foul on A, basic spot is the spot of the foul; ... Look in rule 10 under "Basic Spot"; ....

In checking rule 10, basic spot, I can find no instance where the basic spot is the "spot of the foul". To save space, I did not quote the entire rule, just the beginning of each article.

SECTION 4 BASIC SPOTS
ART. 1 If a foul occurs during a down, the basic spot is determined by the action that occurs during the down....
ART. 2 The basic spot is the previous spot....
ART. 3 The basic spot is the spot where the kick ends....
ART. 4 The basic spot is the spot where the related run ends....
ART. 5 The basic spot is the succeeding spot:
ART. 6 The basic spot is the 20-yard line....
ART. 7 The basic spot is the goal line....

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Blue37

In checking rule 10, basic spot, I can find no instance where the basic spot is the "spot of the foul". To save space, I did not quote the entire rule, just the beginning of each article.

SECTION 4 BASIC SPOTS
ART. 1 If a foul occurs during a down, the basic spot is determined by the action that occurs during the down....
ART. 2 The basic spot is the previous spot....
ART. 3 The basic spot is the spot where the kick ends....
ART. 4 The basic spot is the spot where the related run ends....
ART. 5 The basic spot is the succeeding spot:
ART. 6 The basic spot is the 20-yard line....
ART. 7 The basic spot is the goal line....

10-6 First paragraph, last sentence. Also, in third paragraph.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by Forksref

10-6 First paragraph, last sentence. Also, in third paragraph.

You are confusing "basic spot" with "spot of enforcement".

The "basic spot" is NEVER the spot of the foul.

[ajmc]

Excuse me, but you might want to read just a little bit further to NF: 10.6 "Enforcement Spots, All-But-One Principle", you'll find a number of references to the "spot of the foul".

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Blue37

You are confusing "basic spot" with "spot of enforcement".

The "basic spot" is NEVER the spot of the foul.

By coincidence it could be. But that is not the issue. I was trying to point out where the ABO principle is described in the rule book.

[FeetBallRef]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

I am having a ...momemt...

I cant find the plays (case book) or the rule that deal with the live ball penalty enforced as a dead ball. We had a game today where runner had broken for TD... 20 yards behind the play was a personal foul...

We enforced it as live ball enforced as dead but coach wanted to argue (he came back game later with rule books in habd to argue). I need to file game report rto league but cant find my rule backing... I know it;s there I am just havcing one of theose moments (NFHS rules)

Thanks for the helps

KEVIN, You didn't say if the hit was before the TD or after the runner crossed the goal line.

If it was before the TD, ABO, spot of foul & back 15 yards. After the TD, dead ball personal foul (not USC) from the succeeding spot