forfeit because of religious beliefs

[ref3808]

Essentially these children were penalized for adhering to and practicing their faith. The game time and/or location should have been changed. It's the WIAA that should be penalized, not the school.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ref3808

Essentially these children were penalized for adhering to and practicing their faith.

Everyone has their own cross to bear.

[just another ref]

If you change it for one group, another group will ask/demand that you change it back/change it to another time/change some other game.

This part is not unprecedented.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If you change it for one group, another group will ask/demand that you change it back/change it to another time/change some other game.

My assigner knows that I only officiate on days of the week that end in "day" and in months that have at least twenty-eight days. For me to officiate on days that do not match this strict criterion would go against my personal code of conduct. I'm not changing for my assigner, nor do I expect for him to change the rules for me.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My assigner knows that I only officiate on days of the week that end in "day" and in months that have at least twenty-eight days. For me to officiate on days that do not match this strict criterion would go against my personal code of conduct. I'm not changing for my assigner, nor do I expect for him to change the rules for me.

So you've already been drinking enough today that you consider yourself a group?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So you've already been drinking enough today that you consider yourself a group?

It Saturday. February has twenty-eight days. And it's five o'clock somewhere. I know it's a strict personal code of conduct, but it's Lent, and I feel the need to sacrifice.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Everyone has their own cross to bear.

Seriously? You are going to use that line with regards to a Jewish school? Judging by your tag line at the bottom (Jn 3:16) you should probably know the ramifications and the meaning of that.
The law does allow for reasonable accomodation. I would have like to heard more of the reasons why they would not play the game at a later time.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

The law does allow for reasonable accomodation. I would have like to heard more of the reasons why they would not play the game at a later time.

Can you give a reference to the law in question. Just doesn't sound like a legal matter to me.

[Judtech]

Title 7 of the '64 Civil Rights Act. (not the more 'popular' Title IX) Religious beleifes must be reasonably accomodated. (not causing 'undue hardship') Flexible schedules being one of them.
However, I applaud the decsion to not make a "mountain out of a mole hill" in this situation. I agree that the players will learn more in the long run. It would have benefitted no one, and fostered IMO an 'us v them' mentality that helps no one.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Title 7 of the '64 Civil Rights Act. (not the more 'popular' Title IX) Religious beliefs must be reasonably accommodated. (not causing 'undue hardship') Flexible schedules being one of them.

And has it been definitively stated by anyone in authority that this law would ever apply in this situation? Reasonably accommodated. One of the mothers of all broad terms. And is missing a consolation game undue hardship? To ask to change the schedule of a tournament, which was made probably a year in advance, to accommodate any one group for any reason sounds like a lot to ask to me.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And has it been definitively stated by anyone in authority that this law would ever apply in this situation?

Yes, as I mentioned previously, every level of Oregon court. Not necessarily binding in other states but certainly an authoritative body.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Reasonably accommodated. One of the mothers of all broad terms. And is missing a consolation game undue hardship?

The hardship it is talking about is not the hardship of missing something due to the lack of an accomodation but the effect on others. It wouldn't be reasonable for ask the others for a change that would cause substantially more expense (extra night's hotel, additional travel, etc. or requiring the tournament host to extend to event additional days) but swapping times of two games between 3pm to 7pm, for example, likely has no material impact on anyone. It is a neutral swap. I can't see why there is even any resistance.

Originally Posted by just another ref

To ask to change the schedule of a tournament, which was made probably a year in advance, to accommodate any one group for any reason sounds like a lot to ask to me.

I just don't see that is much of anything to ask at all. Most these tournaments have several games per day and all it amounts to is swapping times with another pair of teams.

It is nothing new that religious schools have limits in what they can do based on thier beliefs. The state organizations are usually chartered to server ALL schools. Even if the schedule was made in advance, they knew they had such a school...if not, they know for the next year. They should plan for the possibility...its not that hard. It sounds more like someone just don't want to spend the 5 extra minutes to think about how to accomodate them.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And has it been definitively stated by anyone in authority that this law would ever apply in this situation? Reasonably accommodated. One of the mothers of all broad terms. And is missing a consolation game undue hardship? To ask to change the schedule of a tournament, which was made probably a year in advance, to accommodate any one group for any reason sounds like a lot to ask to me.

Thus the reason for lawyers. If by switching times with the game immediately after their game who would be harmed? For instance, would playing at 5 instead of 7 harm those players? There would be no additional burden for those two teams. No extra travel expense etc. For those playing at 5 to play at 7 the benefits would outway any additional "burden". While those teams may return home a few hours later, they would still have the opportunity to participate in the state tournament and reap any rewards that would entail.
Of course by the time you filed all the injunctions, temporary retraining orders etc, the tournament would be over and it would all be a big distraction.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Seriously? You are going to use that line with regards to a Jewish school? Judging by your tag line at the bottom (Jn 3:16) you should probably know the ramifications and the meaning of that.

Good grief. Knowing Billy as I do, I'm willing to stipulate that the phrase was not accidental. So?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Everyone has their own cross to bear.

Originally Posted by Judtech

Seriously? You are going to use that line with regards to a Jewish school? Judging by your tag line at the bottom (Jn 3:16) you should probably know the ramifications and the meaning of that.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Good grief. Knowing Billy as I do, I'm willing to stipulate that the phrase was not accidental. So?

Thus the title, "Mixed Up Metaphor ???".

If I, or Winston Churchill, have offended any members of the Jewish faith, I sincerely apologize. Just say the word and I will delete my post.

Remember, many of us on the Forum, Christians, Jews, and Muslims, are all sons of Abraham. And, Jesus was a Jew.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by ref3808

Essentially these children were penalized for adhering to and practicing their faith. The game time and/or location should have been changed. It's the WIAA that should be penalized, not the school.

The WIAA has been VERY clear over the last 20 or so years that game times are set in advance and will not be changed to cater to one group or another. If they make the change for this group, they have to be willing to postpone Friday night semi-final games until Saturday night and then move the Championship games to Sunday - thus affecting everyone else involved in a negative way. That makes no sense.

I admire these kids, their coaches, their Rabbi's and their parents for sticking to their beliefs. But they knew what the situation was going in - this did not take them by surprise. They made their choices. They were not penalized or punished - they chose.