The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 26, 2010, 10:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 153
forfeit because of religious beliefs

Rivals High - Team forfeits playoff game due to religious fast

Just curious what anyone's thoughts are on how this was handled by the school and the state
__________________
CALL WHAT YOU SEE AND SEE WHAT YOU CALL
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 26, 2010, 11:17pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
“The most remarkable race which has appeared in the world.” (Winston Churchill)

Wednesday, September 26, 2001
By Jeff Merron
Special to ESPN.com

In 1965, Sandy Koufax refused to pitch in Game One of the World Series because it was Yom Kippur, a Jewish holy day. Instead of Koufax, Don Drysdale pitched for the Los Angeles Dodgers, and he gave up seven runs in 2 2/3 innings. "I bet right now you wish I was Jewish, too," Drysdale said to Walter Alston when the manager came to pull him from the game. The Dodgers lost to the Minnesota Twins, 8-2.

Instead of pitching that day, Koufax attended synagogue in Minneapolis. As the Dodgers' ace, Koufax still pitched Games Two, Five, and Seven, throwing complete-game shutouts in Games Five and Seven. Koufax's decision and his pitching brilliance remain a source of pride among devout American Jews, even those who aren't baseball fans.

Shawn Green, also of the Dodgers, is following in Koufax's footsteps tonight. Yom Kippur begins this evening, and Green is sitting out a critical game against the San Francisco Giants. Green will be missed -- he has already set the Dodgers record for home runs in a season with 48 and counting, and the Dodgers are in a desperate chase for the pennant, three-and-a-half games behind the Arizona Diamondbacks in the National League West, and two behind the Giants. But Green grew up hearing about Koufax's demonstration of faith, and is determined to follow his example, saying, "There is nothing I would rather do than play against the Giants in a pennant race, but some things take precedence over that."

Long before Green, and before Koufax, Jewish holidays were a knotty issue among baseball players. In 1934, Hank Greenberg, the Jewish Babe Ruth, anguished over whether or not to play on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year and the first of the High Holy Days, on September 10, 1934. That day, the Detroit Tigers faced the New York Yankees in a key game.

The Detroit media, aware of Greenberg's indecision, sought out the opinions of local rabbis, with the Detroit News running a headline saying "Talmud Clears Greenberg for Holiday Play."

"The team was fighting for first place," wrote Greenberg in his autobiography, "and I was probably the only batter in the lineup who was not in a slump. But in the Jewish religion, it is traditional that one observe the holiday solemnly, with prayer…. I wasn't sure what to do."

Greenberg skipped batting practice that day, thought some more, and finally chose to take the field. He hit two home runs to lead the Tigers to a 2-1 victory.

The next day, the Detroit Free Press ran a banner headline, in Hebrew, that read "Happy New Year, Hank," Also in the Free Press, an Edgar Guest poem celebrated Greenberg's decision:
Came Yom Kippur -- holy fast day world wide over to the Jew,
And Hank Greenberg to his teaching and the old tradition true
Spent the day among his people and he didn't come to play.
Said Murphy to Mulrooney, 'We shall lose the game today!
We shall miss him on the infield and shall miss him at the bat
But he's true to his religion -- and I honor him for that!

Just days later, Greenberg didn't play on Yom Kippur. The Tigers had all but clinched the pennant by then. When Greenberg arrived at synagogue that day, the service stopped, and the congregants gave him a rousing round of applause.

"The only way I would even think that I might have been a hero in those days was the day I walked in Shaarey Zedek Temple and got a standing ovation because I showed up in temple on Yom Kippur," Greenberg said in 1984. "The poor rabbi standing on the podium 'davening,' praying, and suddenly I walk in and everybody in the congregation gets up and applauds. The poor rabbi looks around; he doesn't know what is happening. And I'm embarrassed as can be, because it was all totally unexpected."
Greenberg's decision not to play -- and the positive reaction it elicited both in the media and among fans -- may have had some impact on the decisions of some Jewish ballplayers in the following years. But others disregarded his example.

In 1935 Harry Eisenstadt was a rookie pitcher for the Brooklyn Dodgers. He wasn't scheduled to pitch on Yom Kippur, but Dodgers manager Burleigh Grimes asked that he fill in for an injured reliever. The first batter Eisenstadt faced that day hit a grand slam. And, in 1938, Phillies shortstop Eddie Feinberg played in a Yom Kippur doubleheader -- and went oh-for-8. His two Jewish teammates, outfielder Morrie Arnovich (an All-Star in 1939) and first baseman Phil Weintraub (who batted .311 in 100 games in 1938), also went hitless that day -- because they didn't play.

Greenberg also sat out Yom Kippur in 1938 -- as did Eisenstadt, who was then also playing for the Tigers.

Another prominent player who faced this classic dilemma was Indians third baseman Al Rosen, a four-time All-Star and 1953 AL MVP. Rosen, who played from 1947 to 1956, never played on Yom Kippur, but had a tough decision in 1954 -- the Indians were playing in the World Series against the New York Giants, and Yom Kippur fell during the World Series schedule.

Rosen announced in advance that he would sit out Yom Kippur, but the Giants made it a moot point, ending the series in a sweep before the holy day. "It would have been expected of Rosen," wrote Joe Hoffman in the Jerusalem Post in 1994. "He was a proud Jew who went out of his way to make his Jewish identity known."

Jake Pitler, who played one full season for the Pirates in 1917, was a Dodgers first base coach from 1947 to 1957; he didn't coach on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, and was lauded for this (among other things) by at least one rabbi, who praised him publicly, and also by Brooklyn's many Jewish fans. In "Ellis Island to Ebbets Field," historian Michael Ebner said he remembered Dodgers broadcasters Vin Scully and Red Barber explaining why Pitler wasn't on the field those days. Said Ebner: "Jake Pitler always made me proud as a youngster because he connected two things that were important to me: being Jewish and rooting passionately for Brooklyn to eclipse the Yankees in next year's World Series."

For players who are less devout, or who have a smaller stature in the game, other factors enter into their decisions. Some feel the influence of Greenberg, Koufax, and Green. Others, less secure about their place in the game, answer to the call of baseball.

This year, for instance, Texas Rangers outfielder Gabe Kapler said that he was considering sitting out because of Green's decision. "I have mixed emotions," Kapler said a few weeks ago. "Nobody is more proud of their heritage than I am and nobody is more proud of being Jewish than I am. It's something I have to mull over."

Last year, Kapler, less than midway through his second full season, told the Dallas Morning News in June that he would play on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but said that his mind wasn't made up for future seasons. "I'm a totally spiritual person," said Kapler. "I have a relationship with God, but it's my own relationship and the way I choose to practice my beliefs. I'm skeptical when it comes to organized religion. I feel like there's a lot of brainwashing that goes into it."

At it turns out, Kapler will be able to play because his day game is expected to end before the start of Yom Kippur, although he remains unsure what he will do if the game goes longer than expected.

Because Kapler is a regular, he may feel more independent than Milwaukee Brewers' backup catcher Jesse Levis felt in 1996. Explaining his decision to play a Yom Kippur day game against the Orioles on September 23, 1996. Levis said, "It's not like I'm Sandy Koufax. I don't have that kind of leverage. I hope God forgives me."

Brewers' manager Phil Garner had put Levis into the game as a pinch-hitter in the seventh inning. "It totally slipped my mind," Garner said. "I didn't even think about it until afterward."

Levis, who began play near sundown, had been fasting for almost 24 hours. "I was OK," Levis said. "I was just really thirsty."

But Jose Bautista, a baseball journeyman whose mother is Israeli and father Dominican, honored his faith. Bautista, who pitched for five teams in a ten-year career that ended in 1997, told the Village Voice, "My family and I go to synagogue when we can and we pray every Friday. We fast on Yom Kippur and not only do I not pitch, I don't even go to the ball game."

There is one other, less lofty motive that guides baseball players: superstition. In 1969, the Houston Astros outfielder Norm Miller said he would no longer play on Jewish holidays, but not out of religious conviction. As recounted in Jim Bouton's "Ball Four," Miller said, "I play on one and go 0-for-4 and the next day go 0-for-5 and that's it. I'll never play on a Jewish holiday again."
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 10:57am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 12:01am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Tough position for all involved, really. Congratulations to the school for sticking to their principals; it's just a game, after all. Not the first time this scenario has played out, either. And Billy, we really didn't need the entire Koufax article.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 01:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Menifee,CA
Posts: 860
WIAA-Why not just move the game?

I agree that this school did the right thing by forfeiting and sticking to their religious beliefs! We have some Seventh-Day adventist schools in our section and every time a playoff game falls within their Sabbath the powers that be are always open to moving game times where it won't be an issue. The school in question here offered a solution that would've allowed this game to be played. If the WIAA is about that state tournament experience then they should have agreed to their solution which would allow these student athletes to participate. They should not be placed under sanctions by the WIAA!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 01:08am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper View Post
I agree that this school did the right thing by forfeiting and sticking to their religious beliefs! We have some Seventh-Day adventist school in our section and every time a playoff game falls within their Sabbath the powers that be are always open to moving game times where it won't be an issue. The school in question here offered a solution that would've allowed this game to be played. If the WIAA is about that state tournament experience then they should have agreed to their solution which would allow these student athletes to participate.
Honestly didn't read the article that closely, but sometimes it comes down to venue availability, hardship on the other team, etc. And sometimes, the governing body just doesn't want to set a precedent by making the change.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 01:28am
SAJ SAJ is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 183
"As to the request that, could we do some rescheduling to deal with this particular issue, that would negatively impact the schedule for all 31 of the other teams involved," WIAA executive director Mike Colbrese told the Yakima Herald-Republic.

"And if we were to go off-site with (any rescheduling)," he continued, "we've basically taken both teams out of their schedule and they end up playing their game at night, not in the afternoon. And they're also not getting that state tournament experience, which is really what the whole thing is about."


uh, no it's not.

this scenario turned out much better for that "state tournament experience", right Mr. Colbrese?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 08:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
I think it was handled correctly. The state does its thing, and if the religious folk choose not to participate for whatever reason, it's their right to forfeit.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 08:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 285
Essentially these children were penalized for adhering to and practicing their faith. The game time and/or location should have been changed. It's the WIAA that should be penalized, not the school.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 10:35am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
I think it was handled correctly. The state does its thing, and if the religious folk choose not to participate for whatever reason, it's their right to forfeit.
Yup, and the further away we(officials) keep from becoming involved in any matter like this, the better.

It's just not our bidness in any way, no matter what anyone's personal feeling may be.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 11:01am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
Mixed Up Metaphor ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ref3808 View Post
Essentially these children were penalized for adhering to and practicing their faith.
Everyone has their own cross to bear.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 11:23am.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 11:54am
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
If you change it for one group, another group will ask/demand that you change it back/change it to another time/change some other game.

This part is not unprecedented.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 12:01pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
I Only Drink On These Days As Well ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
If you change it for one group, another group will ask/demand that you change it back/change it to another time/change some other game.
My assigner knows that I only officiate on days of the week that end in "day" and in months that have at least twenty-eight days. For me to officiate on days that do not match this strict criterion would go against my personal code of conduct. I'm not changing for my assigner, nor do I expect for him to change the rules for me.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 12:05pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
My assigner knows that I only officiate on days of the week that end in "day" and in months that have at least twenty-eight days. For me to officiate on days that do not match this strict criterion would go against my personal code of conduct. I'm not changing for my assigner, nor do I expect for him to change the rules for me.
So you've already been drinking enough today that you consider yourself a group?
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 12:10pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
It's 5:09 P.M. In London, England ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
So you've already been drinking enough today that you consider yourself a group?
It Saturday. February has twenty-eight days. And it's five o'clock somewhere. I know it's a strict personal code of conduct, but it's Lent, and I feel the need to sacrifice.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 27, 2010, 12:13pm
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by ref3808 View Post
Essentially these children were penalized for adhering to and practicing their faith. The game time and/or location should have been changed. It's the WIAA that should be penalized, not the school.
The WIAA has been VERY clear over the last 20 or so years that game times are set in advance and will not be changed to cater to one group or another. If they make the change for this group, they have to be willing to postpone Friday night semi-final games until Saturday night and then move the Championship games to Sunday - thus affecting everyone else involved in a negative way. That makes no sense.

I admire these kids, their coaches, their Rabbi's and their parents for sticking to their beliefs. But they knew what the situation was going in - this did not take them by surprise. They made their choices. They were not penalized or punished - they chose.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should a state association accomodate a religious school for the playoffs? Mark Padgett Basketball 45 Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:01pm
Religious headwear -- NCAA ChuckElias Basketball 14 Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:25am
Religious head scarf legal? (Girls NFHS) Robmoz Basketball 17 Sun Nov 21, 2004 02:48am
Religious headware caref Basketball 41 Thu Dec 05, 2002 07:29am
Forfeit? b_silliman Basketball 1 Sun Jan 16, 2000 11:42pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1