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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 02:26pm
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Watched a state district girls game last night and witnessed an unusual situation. A girl had a head scarf covering her head (assuming musilm faith) and the officials informed her that she was not legal to play with it on. After a 5 minute discussion with input from the coaches and A.D.'s on both sides it was decided to let her play.

Q. Is there any specific example in NFHS rules that prohibits religious head scarfs or considers them as jewelry/ornamental?
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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 02:34pm
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In Washington Players can wear religious head gear if and only if there is a written approval from the State association at the game site.
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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 02:36pm
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I can't quote you chapter and verse, but I believe the NF policy on religious accoutrements is to let the player wear them unless they are a safety hazard to the other players. An example would be a religious pendant on a necklace. It is my understanding the player may wear it if they tape it to their body under their uniform. Same procedure with a medic-alert bracelet (better idea is to ask the coach to hold on to it since it might be overlooked if there is an injury and the bracelet is not visible).

I remember an incident about two years ago with a private Jewish HS somewhere on the East Coast. They wanted to wear their yarmulkes during play. The officials told them they could (since they are soft), but not if they affixed them to their hair with pins or anything hard or sharp. I think they compromised and attached them somehow with rubber bands.
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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 03:01pm
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NFHS rule 3-5-2EXCEPTION1- "State associations may on an individual basis allow a player to participate while wearing a head covering if it meets the following criteria:
b)For religious reasons- In the event there is documented evidence provided to the state association that a participant may not expose his/her uncovered head, the state association may approve a covering or wrap which is non-abrasive, hard or dangerous to any other player and which is attached in such a way as it is highly unlikely it will come off during play".

Iow, tell the coach that you need something in writing from their state association approving their use. They should have done that at the start of the season, not before they got to state districts. When in doubt, CYA.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Nov 18th, 2004 at 03:04 PM]
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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 03:04pm
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funniest thing i've ever seen on a basketball court: 2 boys Jewish teams (approx 13 years old) playing in their blue jeans and all had their Yarmelkes on (I guess that's how you spell the thing they wear on their head) and they kept falling off.

So picture this, everytime they'd take off running, the thing would fall off, the player would stop and pick it up, kiss it, and plop it back on his head, only to have it fall off again a few steps later. After a little while, all players were running around with their hand on their head holding the thin on.

Trust me, this is in no way a dig at their religion, just a funny on how they dealt with it.
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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 06:18pm
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I will probably take a lot of flack for what I am about to write, but I would not have let the players play because it is a safety hazard. If game administration told me that I had to let them play I would have walked away from the game. My first responsibility is to the safety of all of the players.

To emphasize my point, when we lived in Los Angeles (Glendale actually: 1982-84) I had a good friend who was a basketabll official and of the Jewish faith. There was a private school that belonged to the CIF and it was a Jewish school and it wanted its players to be allowed to wear yarmulkes. Neither my friend nor I ever officiated the team, but he told everybody that if he did he would not let them wear them because the yarmulkes had nothing to do with the sport of basketball.

I think that we have taken political correctness to illogical extremes.
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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 06:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
To emphasize my point, when we lived in Los Angeles (Glendale actually: 1982-84) I had a good friend who was a basketabll official and of the Jewish faith. There was a private school that belonged to the CIF and it was a Jewish school and it wanted its players to be allowed to wear yarmulkes. Neither my friend nor I ever officiated the team, but he told everybody that if he did he would not let them wear them because the yarmulkes had nothing to do with the sport of basketball.

I think that we have taken political correctness to illogical extremes.
The book requires you to let them play if they have permission in advance from the state, and if they use something to keep the items attached. YOur political correctness or lack of it has nothing to do with it.
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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 07:40pm
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A similar situation happened to me once, but I was the person being called out for it. Here's the situation:

I used to wear one of the "WWJD" black bracelets around my left wrist from time to time. Wore it out for a game one night. During the introductions of the starting line-ups, one of the coaches came up to me and lodged a complaint to me about my wearing the bracelet. I was rather taken back at first, but I told the coach I was it because of beliefs in God. He still was not happy about it, stating that if players have to have jewelry removed, so do I. My partner and I looked at each other, and went along with his request because we did not want to get the night off on the wrong foot.

Following day, I emailed our state association office, and explained the situation to them. They took a position and wording their opinion correctly enough to me, so that they would not appear to be violating any religion laws. Since then, if I have one of my bracelets with me, I just put in my pants pocket before I go on the field or floor for a game.
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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 07:47pm
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I had a similiar incident several years ago with a religious head covering. I told the coach that unless I had something in writing from the state association the player could not play. The coach did not like it, but that is the rule.

This is something that coaches need to address prior to starting the season.

After the game I contacted the association just to make sure I had done the right thing and they said I had.

I also looked at it as a possible safety hazzard. What if I had allowed it and then some freak accident happened?

As officials we need to be very careful about possible litgation because of decisions we make. If we do not follow the rule book, especially in regards to equipment and apparel we are setting ourselves up for possible legal issues.



As an example, at the school I teach at the padding has been torn off the bottom and one side of the backboard. It has not been repaired with the first game of the season a week away. If I were to walk in, as one of the officials for that game, and see that, we are not playing.

Something else I check very carefully before any game are the metal coverings for the volleyball pole holes. In many facilities that are not kept up you will find loose coverings. I make sure the A.D. secures them properly prior to playing.


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Old Thu Nov 18, 2004, 10:49pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
To emphasize my point, when we lived in Los Angeles (Glendale actually: 1982-84) I had a good friend who was a basketabll official and of the Jewish faith. There was a private school that belonged to the CIF and it was a Jewish school and it wanted its players to be allowed to wear yarmulkes. Neither my friend nor I ever officiated the team, but he told everybody that if he did he would not let them wear them because the yarmulkes had nothing to do with the sport of basketball.

I think that we have taken political correctness to illogical extremes.
The book requires you to let them play if they have permission in advance from the state, and if they use something to keep the items attached. YOur political correctness or lack of it has nothing to do with it.

You are absolutely correct, I am not politically correct and never will be politically correct. And before anybody tries to label me a knee jerk reationary conservative, everybody should now that I am one of the last New Deal liberal Democrats left in the U.S.A. The safety of the players come first, last and in between.

As I said before, I will not take a position that will compromise the safety of the players. If I have to make the choice, I will not officiate the game rather than be party to a potential situation that would make me responsible for a player's injury.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Fri Nov 19, 2004, 07:15am
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Early in my career, I did a girls game by myself at a Saudi Arabian school here in northern VA. The school was playing another middle eastern school and all but 1 of the young ladies (5-6 grade) wore the head coverings. I don't recall asking about having something in writing because every girl except the 1 wore them -- doesn't mean it was right, just don't remember ever asking.

An interesting thing about the game is that there was an armed security guard at the entrance to the school and I had to leave my drivers license (as a form of ID) with him and be escorted to the gym. It was a great game because there was none of the usual trash talking, rude parents, etc. you sometimes see at games. Talked to the coach of the home team after the game and she said they never had a discipline problem at the school. She said this was partly because the classes were segregated between boys and girls.
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Old Fri Nov 19, 2004, 08:29am
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Segregation of boys and girls???

we have tried that with our incoming freshman here at our high school in kentucky....helps them get better adjusted and acclamated to the big 1200 population school! i teach freshman algebra and it definitely helps with discipline problems!
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Old Fri Nov 19, 2004, 10:34am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I will probably take a lot of flack for what I am about to write, but I would not have let the players play because it is a safety hazard. If game administration told me that I had to let them play I would have walked away from the game. My first responsibility is to the safety of all of the players.

[...]

I think that we have taken political correctness to illogical extremes.
The following comments represent my opinion and my opinion only. I disagree with Mark's position, but I understand where he's coming from. That having been said...

Basketball (and pretty much any other sport) is inherently dangerous, at least to a certain extent. The idea that you would walk away from this situation, which is directly permitted by rule, seems hypocritical. You don't walk away from a game (I'd guess) because a player may be hurt by contact, or a might slip on the floor and twist an ankle, or might break a finger by catching it on the sleeve of another player's shirt. The last example is particularly apt to this discussion, I think, because it deals with a situation where part of the legal uniform has the potential to cause injury. (If the player has state permission to wear the headscarf, the by rule it's part of the uniform.)
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Old Fri Nov 19, 2004, 11:12am
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Alternate view?

As others have said, it is pretty much left up to the state associations as to what they will allow, and one should follow those guidelines.

Now, I was under the assumption that athletics in general was all about participation. The vast majority of these kids will never see the light of day playing in college. The key here to me is participation.

Given that, I would do everything in my power to allow them to play/participate even if I weren't sure of the state rule. I would however get the coaches and AD(s) involved and possibly have something in writing to allow this.

For the life of me, I cannot see how a head covering is dangerous though. I do know of one muslim girl around here that is required to cover her legs if/when she plays. So, part of the uniform? What will it hurt? I know, I know, some say if we allow that, this, where will it end, and all I can say is that, I don't know. I do know that I now have to check for correct underwear color as well as lenght. I have to check hair braids, bobbypins, and fingernail length. Next I'm sure will be tatoos and covering those that are offensive in nature. So, where will it all end is anyones guess.

A few years ago, I was asked to work a Jewish tournament that happened to carry the title of the Jewish Olympics for youth. Can't remember the exact name, but it was a huge undertaking involving all types of Jews whether they be Orthodox, Reformed, etc. The boys all wore yarmulkes, and we had no problems whatsoever. Don't ask me how they kept them on their heads, but I know it wasn't by hair pins, but they were absolutely no problem. And they all wore shorts too. The biggest problem I had was actually getting into the gym. Secruity was so tight that they had to get the organizer to allow us entry since we were not given security I.D.s.

As to not playing a game with torn or missing foam around the backboards, good luck selling that one! I guess some have not worked in many inner city High schools. Here in Western Mass, almost all the schools are missing that foam around the boards. Yes, you might call the game and not play, but I would venture a guess that that would be the last High School game you would ever work.

We have always been told that you are at the site and do whatever it takes to play, unless there is a really serious breach of safety. Also, here in the Northeast, it is not uncommon to have leaky roofs seeing that we get lots of snow and with the freeze thaw cycles, it causes many gym roofs to leak. To my knowledge, I have never heard of a game around here being cancelled because of a leaky roof, but I can tell you that I have spend a lot of time cleaning up many wetspots!

Yes, yes, I know we should do everything in our power to make sure the facilities are safe, but at the same time, some go overboard too. The object here is to try and play the game. I also umpire softball and I can tell you that we have played on plenty of fields that were questionable, all with the coaches preapproval and warnings noted.

Hey, just my 2 cents

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Old Fri Nov 19, 2004, 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
To emphasize my point, when we lived in Los Angeles (Glendale actually: 1982-84) I had a good friend who was a basketabll official and of the Jewish faith. There was a private school that belonged to the CIF and it was a Jewish school and it wanted its players to be allowed to wear yarmulkes. Neither my friend nor I ever officiated the team, but he told everybody that if he did he would not let them wear them because the yarmulkes had nothing to do with the sport of basketball.

I think that we have taken political correctness to illogical extremes.
The book requires you to let them play if they have permission in advance from the state, and if they use something to keep the items attached. YOur political correctness or lack of it has nothing to do with it.

You are absolutely correct, I am not politically correct and never will be politically correct. And before anybody tries to label me a knee jerk reationary conservative, everybody should now that I am one of the last New Deal liberal Democrats left in the U.S.A. The safety of the players come first, last and in between.

As I said before, I will not take a position that will compromise the safety of the players. If I have to make the choice, I will not officiate the game rather than be party to a potential situation that would make me responsible for a player's injury.

MTD, Sr.
Mark -- I gotta admit, I lose respect for someone who brags about not being politically correct. That doesn't mean I'm all for political correctness either, but what I said earlier was that it wasn't the point. If it's not the point, why brag about it?

The point is that you are taking rules into your own hands rather than following a set of rules that are above any individual's opinion. The rule of law. And all that. You scream and moan about it when people do that against your opinion, but when it's your opinion, you just decide for yourself. Okay fine. But don't get huffy when others don't agree.
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