Straddling the pivot foot

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The rule doesn't replace judgment here. If B1 is straddling A1's leg, then any contact resulting from the normal movements of A1 around the pivot will be B1's responsibility. As a defensive stratagem, this move is risky for B.

That doesn't eliminate the possibility of A1 pushing B1 off to gain an advantage, which would be a foul by A1.

I'm not sure I agree. You have B1, standing with two feet on the floor and arms straight up yet you're saying B1 is responsible for contact. Me, I'm putting this one on A1 for gettng themselves into that predicament (as long as B1 didn't get that position illegally). A1 gave up thier right to that space when they stepped away from that vertical space.

Imagine the following play...

A1, without the ball, approaches a standing B1. A1 puts their foot between B1's legs/feet and is passed the ball. Now, are you saying A1 gets to pivot on that foot and make contact with B1 and get B1 called for a foul?

[mick]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not sure I agree. You have B1, standing with two feet on the floor and arms straight up yet you're saying B1 is responsible for contact. Me, I'm putting this one on A1 for gettng themselves into that predicament (as long as B1 didn't get that position illegally). A1 gave up thier right to that space when they stepped away from that vertical space.

Imagine the following play...

A1, without the ball, approaches a standing B1. A1 puts their foot between B1's legs/feet and is passed the ball. Now, are you saying A1 gets to pivot on that foot and make contact with B1 and get B1 called for a foul?

A violated B's space. Apples and Bananas.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not sure I agree. You have B1, standing with two feet on the floor and arms straight up yet you're saying B1 is responsible for contact. Me, I'm putting this one on A1 for gettng themselves into that predicament (as long as B1 didn't get that position illegally). A1 gave up thier right to that space when they stepped away from that vertical space.

Imagine the following play...

A1, without the ball, approaches a standing B1. A1 puts their foot between B1's legs/feet and is passed the ball. Now, are you saying A1 gets to pivot on that foot and make contact with B1 and get B1 called for a foul?

That's just it: A1 did NOT step away, but kept the pivot foot planted. That's part of A1's spot on the floor, and B1 entered it.

Your case is backwards, since it has A1 entering B1's space.

I think that there's room for A1 to screw up here, as I suggested originally. A1 is not entitled to do the splits, or to claim more than shoulder width space on the floor. But in many cases the responsibility for contact will be B1's (and that's not a very strong claim).

[wyo96]

Thanks for the feedback and discussion.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's just it: A1 did NOT step away, but kept the pivot foot planted. That's part of A1's spot on the floor, and B1 entered it.

Your case is backwards, since it has A1 entering B1's space.

I think that there's room for A1 to screw up here, as I suggested originally. A1 is not entitled to do the splits, or to claim more than shoulder width space on the floor. But in many cases the responsibility for contact will be B1's (and that's not a very strong claim).

The real question is where is A1' space...over thier foot or over their torso (if not the same)? Several rules place limits on a players space such that a foot extended outside their shoulders is not legal (screening, block/charge, etc.). Why any different for a player with the ball?

If A1's space is over thier pivot foot, does that mean B1 can lean over A1's head/torso and not be guilty of a foul if A1 jumps? I don't think you can have it both ways. They don't get two areas of verticality. Either A1 owns the space above their feet (which one?) or above their torso. There is a lot of ink in favor of it being the latter.