referee has family in high school game

[beverly100]

my high school team is in a 1a division that is made up of seven schools. two of the refs that is working our games are brother-in laws. they have a nephew that plays on a team that is in our conference. they always work together at the game. should they be booked in our conference or ref at their nephews games?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by beverly100

my high school team is in a 1a division that is made up of seven schools. two of the refs that are working our games are brothers-in law. they have a nephew that plays on a team that is in our conference. they always work together at the game. should they be booked in our conference or ref at their nephew's games?

No, perception is reality IMHO.

[Crabnut]

Unless there are just simply no other choices, this does not protect the fairness and integrity of the game. No way.

[Adam]

It's up to the folks involved in scheduling. Personally, I would avoid such a game, but I live in a larger city where there are plenty of schools and plenty of officials. Smaller towns may not have the same luxuries.

[johnsonboys03]

I can say this...I did a game the other night were the brother of the head coach was my partner. The opposing coach also new it. My partner called a great game with complete unbias but the knowledge of this made the coach feel he was being "hommerd". It caused a lot of problems for me. The coach was constantly on me about being on the same page with my partner. So I guess what I'm saying is it's not easy and would probably avoid it if at all possible.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

I can say this...I did a game the other night were the brother of the head coach was my partner. The opposing coach also new it. My partner called a great game with complete unbias but the knowledge of this made the coach feel he was being "hommerd". It caused a lot of problems for me. The coach was constantly on me about being on the same page with my partner. So I guess what I'm saying is it's not easy and would probably avoid it if at all possible.

I'm not sure how much you took, but I certainly wouldn't put up with a coach insinuating he was getting cheated, even in this situation.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Smaller towns may not have the same luxuries.

This is a valid point in these situations. My dad still officiates "back home", which is the fairly unpopulated area of Northwest Kansas. He doesn't officiate varsity level games for our home town, but he does other games in the league and in the surrounding area.

If people in this area were to never work a game where a relative (niece/nephew, cousin, etc) played, there wouldn't be enough officials to go around. When I was playing I had cousins on several of the 10 league teams. When you combine that with the fact that my dad has been in that area all his life and that he often knows coaches, parents, and other players even better than these 'relatives' you can see that these issues are going to arise.

He has regular partners, and they typically do one or two games a year (just had one in a league tournament two weeks ago) where one of the coaches is a brother-in-law of one of his partners.

It's just the way it goes in some areas of the country. They're quite happy to just have some competent officials in that part of the state.

[Adam]

That's another good point. Often in these rural areas, families have obviously expanded over the years to where, like you note, cousins will be on teams from several schools in an area. That's why each official is generally left to make this decision on his/her own.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

No, perception is reality IMHO.

So you are saying that if someone thinks there is a conflict, there is a conflict? That opens up a whole lot of cans of worms if that is true.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

How far does it go? Should Hartzell be forced to give up working D-I basketball cause he's an AD at a D-I school?

For the record Hartzell left UNI a few years later.

Also a side note to that story. The commentator that raised that issue was ESPN analyst Doug Gottlieb. I actually knew Hartzell's wife as she was an official too and she worked games in front of me at the JUCO level on the Women's side. Well I ran into his wife a few years back at the Big Ten Tournament. She told me that Hartzell took an article in which Referee Magazine wrote about him and the Gottlieb created controversy and Gottlieb was working a game as an analyst. Well Rick Hartzell was officiating and Rick went up to Gottlieb with the article and gave it to Gottlieb before the game started. I guess Gottlieb did not have a lot to say at that point from what I understand.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And if you look at subvarsity, many schools hire district teachers and local residents to work those games. Nobody bats an eye at that.

I agree. Lower levels cannot have the same standard as a varsity contest or in some cases you might not have officials if such a policy were to outlaw anyone that knows anyone or is related to anyone in a lower level game.

Peace

[jalons]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record Hartzell left UNI a few years later.

And that added another 30-40 games to his schedule.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I actually knew Hartzell's wife as she was an official too and she worked games in front of me at the JUCO level on the Women's side.

Actually she's still an official.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So you are saying that if someone thinks there is a conflict, there is a conflict? That opens up a whole lot of cans of worms if that is true.

Peace

Sure does. You and I know it's not true, but to others it can be perceived as such. I can't control what fans may think. So the end result is truth be damned, they believe what they want to.


"Everything you can imagine is real."

---Pablo Picasso---

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Sure does. You and I know it's not true, but to others it can be perceived as such. I can't control what fans may think. So the end result is truth be damned, they believe what they want to.


"Everything you can imagine is real."

---Pablo Picasso---

Fans do not set the agenda or rules to who will work or not work a game. If that was the case people who lived in the same country, knows someone from a school or just likes or does not dislike a school (according to the fans) would be excluded. This is also why the only requirement for the IHSA is to list what schools you attended and the schools in which you have family or relatives that attend or work at a particular school. And even that seems to involve spouse and children in the policy, not the 3rd or 4th cousin you might not even deal with. Or better yet not the girl you once dated in college. I guess I should not have worked in the football post season in 2 different rounds as I worked schools that were in the town I lived and I had both schools. One school won and another school lost. And yes certain people knew where I lived and it was not an issue anymore than it needed to be. And the year before I worked in the basketball regional with the only private school in my town in a regional and I worked the third round of the playoffs in football with that same school (and I could go back to baseball post season games but you get the idea). I have absolutely no direct ties to these schools other than I live in the same town. I have closer ties to other schools that are completely out of my area, but when I work games my affiliations have nothing to do with my job and I believe that is the case with the vast majority of officials as well.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Fans do not set the agenda or rules to who will work or not work a game.

But fans are the ones who complain to those who decide who will work the games. It trickles down.

[Texas Aggie]

Should Hartzell be forced to give up working D-I basketball cause he's an AD at a D-I school?

Oh, please. This isn't even close to the situation of someone working a game involving a family member -- even a distant one. I could take a D-1 AD job right now and have an easier time working a game in that conference (not that I would do that) than I would working the conference of the college I went to.