Timeout situation

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by sseltser

If he had one timeout left, would you have granted him his "phantom" time-out?

IMO you shouldn't have, because you didn't grant one when he had zero.

Snaqs is right: the number of TOs should not matter. Be 100% sure every time.

If he had one time out left do you think he would be adamant that he didn't call one with 4 seconds left, clock running, opponent with the ball out of bounds and his team down 1? Sort of irrelevant.

What do you do then in a packed gym when you can't hear and you have a coach jumping up and down signalling and you aren't "100% sure" whether he is calling TO or signalling to his defense? B/C a lot of signals look a lot like a "T" signal - are you going to say "coach I couldn't discern with 100% certainty that you really wanted a timeout so I didn't grant you one?" Or do you grant it when you are "almost certain" especially given the game situation? It is nice to say be 100% sure, but in reality that is not possible.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

What do you do then in a packed gym when you can't hear and you have a coach jumping up and down signalling and you aren't "100% sure" whether he is calling TO or signalling to his defense? B/C a lot of signals look a lot like a "T" signal - are you going to say "coach I couldn't discern with 100% certainty that you really wanted a timeout so I didn't grant you one?" Or do you grant it when you are "almost certain" especially given the game situation? It is nice to say be 100% sure, but in reality that is not possible.

Frankly, if he's not signalling with his hands and saying it, he's not likely to get it in a noisy gym. It's on him to make it obvious to everyone; precisely because there are too many plays that sound like "timeout."

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

What do you do then in a packed gym when you can't hear and you have a coach jumping up and down signalling and you aren't "100% sure" whether he is calling TO or signalling to his defense? Or do you grant it when you are "almost certain" especially given the game situation?

I've had this happen.. coach standing there in the "double foul" pose. It turned out he wanted a full timeout. My partner got an earful, but his response was: Coach, Neither of us knew you wanted a timeout. I'm sorry. Would you like one now?

Am I always 100% absolutely sure? No, probably not. But hands together over the top of the head and jumping doesn't give me enough certainty. Maybe its a HTBT, but I don't see granting this one.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by sseltser

I've had this happen.. coach standing there in the "double foul" pose. It turned out he wanted a full timeout. My partner got an earful, but his response was: Coach, Neither of us knew you wanted a timeout. I'm sorry. Would you like one now?

Am I always 100% absolutely sure? No, probably not. But hands together over the top of the head and jumping doesn't give me enough certainty. Maybe its a HTBT, but I don't see granting this one.

The "double foul" pose is not even the correct full-time out signal so I can definitely understand why you wouldn't grant one there - and I don't picture a coach who wants a TO in the situation I described jumping up and down with the double foul pose although I would love to see it!

I think it is a HTBT - I guess I am biased though b/c I was there. It came down to my expectation since I didn't realize that he was out of TO's (my bad) therefore I expected that he would be calling one in that situation. And the hands over the head signal that he was doing was similar to what I would call a two-minute drill football signal that QB's often use with their WR's - you know with the two hands coming together like a "grouping" signal. You see that signal in that situation when you are expecting a timeout, believe me it looks a heck of a lot like "TIMEOUT". If he thought this all out ahead of time then more power to him - just another reason why they should eliminate this stupid rule.

[Adam]

The only signal I recognize in this situation is the "T." That's it.

And I'll grant that knowing whether he has any TOs left will affect whether I'm looking for him to signal it. But either way, if I see something that looks like it might possibly be a timeout signal; I'm not granting anything. If I see a timeout signal and see his lips moving something similar to "time out," I'm granting it. I'll deal with the consequences (T-fouls, for example) from there.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

What do you do then in a packed gym when you can't hear and you have a coach jumping up and down signalling and you aren't "100% sure" whether he is calling TO or signalling to his defense?

Call nothing, exactly the same as you should do for any call of any kind at any time during the game that you aren't sure of.

If you call something under those circumstances, it's called "guessing" and that's really not recommended.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Call nothing, exactly the same as you should do for any call of any kind at any time during the game that you aren't sure of.

If you call something under those circumstances, it's called "guessing" and that's really not recommended.

+1

Few things harder to sell than a guess.

[Ignats75]

If the situation developed as the OP described, I would also warn the HC to get control of his bench. The AssCoach gave his team an unwarranted advantage by trying to trick the officials into stopping the clock/play before the other team has a chance to tie up the girl. This is unsporting behvior.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

If the situation developed as the OP described, I would also warn the HC to get control of his bench. The AssCoach gave his team an unwarranted advantage by trying to trick the officials into stopping the clock/play before the other team has a chance to tie up the girl. This is unsporting behvior.

I'm not so sure. They could easily have been talking to the player on the court instructing her to call timeout. To me, that's morel likely what happened. There's no rule against them telling a player to call timeout, even for the bench. ACs call out plays all the time.

I'm don't know about warning the bench in a situation where I screwed up like this.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

To me, that's morel likely what happened.

Morel support?