Inadvertant Horn - Bus Tossing Rant

[referee99]

CP, the Var officials were wrong (from your OP).
The "under the bus" comments were hearsay. Maybe their language was impolitic, maybe they were jerks -- who knows?

When they told you that you got it wrong, I would hope that you would explain that you got it right.
If you have a coach 'furious' at this call, maybe take a look at your mechanics on the play.

Might want to add a little Kabuki theatre to the action. Calling official blows whistle when ball goes OB. You both know what happens next, but you can help others along with something like:
"Partner, did you have a touch?" maybe some visual touch indication and questioning look.
"No touch... Throw in Violation... Here!"
"Good call!"

if you are in proximity and have a moment, "Coach, that is a throw in violation, we are going back to the spot."

[chartrusepengui]

the coach clearly knew he shouldn't get ball as he no sooner got his first words out of mouth and said B should get ball at division line. When he said that, I told him the ball was untouched and so it went back to endline.

I don't think he was so much furious at us as he was at the timer for sounding the horn improperly. I think our mechanics were pretty good. Whistle and open hand up. Look to partner - no touch signal. Said "throw-in violation" (but perhaps not loudly enough. But did tell coach the ball was untouched and he heard that ok.) Point to spot and roll ball to partner who pointed to spot and called for Team B.

I heard about the varsity officials comments from a person I know professionally and trust. When they told us at the half in dressing room that we got it wrong we disagreed and were trying to explain but they just laughed, dropped their bags and left for the stands. Glad I'm not them!!!

[Adam]

Why did the horn sound? Did they start the clock or did the timer hit the horn on purpose?

Did the varsity guys say you should have considered the horn an IW?

[chartrusepengui]

Varsity guys never said anything to back their perspective. Just said, and I quote: "you guys screwed the pooch on that throw in call. Ball goes to A" Partner: "I don't think we did - what do you mean?" Them: "you just did, ha ha ha" out the door.

They were courtside when our game was over and we just passed them heading to dressing area.

The horn sounded because a substitute had approached the table after partner administered ball for throw-in. When they couldn't get in immediately they returned to bench as horn sounded. The timer was someone I have seen do several games to was not really new to the job. Player was not at table prior to giving ball for throw in. I saw partner look there before giving A1 the ball.

I feel good about the way we handled the situation and can't say I would do anything differently. I don't see this as an inadvertant whistle.

[gslefeb]

Would it have been appropriate to blow the whistle prior to the ball going out of bounds, IF A3 stopped due to the horn and otherwise would have been able to secure the ball?

[chartrusepengui]

she was scrambling to get ball and was near the ball when horn sounded but I can't say for certain that she would have retrieved it.

[Adam]

Thanks for the clarifications. I would have done the same thing. The only time I would treat the horn like an IW is near the end of a quarter, when the players (and officials) are expecting a horn to end the quarter/half/game. Other than that, it's a good lesson for the players to play through horns and wait for whistles.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Varsity guys never said anything to back their perspective. Just said, and I quote: "you guys screwed the pooch on that throw in call. Ball goes to A" Partner: "I don't think we did - what do you mean?" Them: "you just did, ha ha ha" out the door.

In WI with no central assigner, I'd probably just say something like "who asked your opinion, anyway?" and then puke on their shoes.

[CDurham]

Last night - GJV ball. Partner under basket with team A throw-in. I'm T. Inbound pass is thrown and A2 completely misses her attempt to catch. Ball bounces and is rising towards A3 making an attempt to retrieve it. As she is doing this the horn sounds from table. A3 hesitates and looks at table. Ball passes her and goes OOB near division line. No one touched ball. I whistled and sent ball back to endline to partner for throw-in Team B.

Coach team A furious - wants ball back to A at POI. Then, as soon as he finishes yelling this - says B should get ball at division line. Since ball was untouched and horn does not stop play we gave the ball to B at endline for throw-in. At half - varsity officials in stands told us we got it wrong. Ball to team A at POI. Later heard that they were tossing us under the bus for the call to team A fans when 2nd half was beginning.

Had a somewhat similar play the other week. Player A is dribbling up the court, the horn sounds, and he throws the ball in my direction. The defense was still playing defense on the dribbler and on other offensive players. I let the ball go OOB and awarded it to Team B.

Of course the bench and the player was a little upset, but I told him the horn doesnt stop play automatically. If both teams would have stopped playing their positions I would have stopped play with the whistle, but only the dribbler seemed to process the horn and proceeded to throw the ball OOB.

[Juulie Downs]

No one has yet answered the question: What if you whistle just after the horn sounds before the ball is clearly OOB? I mean, if it's a play where there's no definite thing happening, and the horn sounds, and all the players just quit playing, I will whistle and then give the ball as POI (after reprimanding the table gently). So in the OP, if you see that A3 is very close to the ball, and then stops trying when the horn sounds, why not blow it dead before it gets to the OOB point and just give it back POI? Of course, once you don't whistle, I see that it's a turnover.

[mj]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

In WI with no central assigner, I'd probably just say something like "who asked your opinion, anyway?" and then puke on their shoes.

Agree. That's why I generally don't offer up my opinion on things about the JV game unless specifically asked by the guys doing the game.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

In WI with no central assigner, I'd probably just say something like "who asked your opinion, anyway?" and then puke on their shoes.

Or how about: "Really? You think we screwed that call? How the hell did you guys get Varsity games if you don't even know the rules on oob calls?"

They aren't from your assignor or association, so who cares what they think.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Or how about: "Really? You think we screwed that call? How the hell did you guys get Varsity games if you don't even know the rules on oob calls?"

They aren't from your assignor or association, so who cares what they think.

NOT a good idea.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Or how about: "Really? You think we screwed that call? How the hell did you guys get Varsity games if you don't even know the rules on oob calls?"

They aren't from your assignor or association, so who cares what they think.

Unfortunately, it probably wasn't apparent that they were pricks until the end of the conversation. But it's a good comeback anyway.

[mcdanrd]

I agree, V officials were way out of line. However, perhaps a little preventative officiating here would have prevented the problem. With a visual check to the table before administering the throw-in you might have noticed the player headed to the table and waited momentarily to wave her in. Of course, you may have done that and she just wasn't headed to the table yet.