The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 11:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WI
Posts: 825
Inadvertant Horn - Bus Tossing Rant

Last night - GJV ball. Partner under basket with team A throw-in. I'm T. Inbound pass is thrown and A2 completely misses her attempt to catch. Ball bounces and is rising towards A3 making an attempt to retrieve it. As she is doing this the horn sounds from table. A3 hesitates and looks at table. Ball passes her and goes OOB near division line. No one touched ball. I whistled and sent ball back to endline to partner for throw-in Team B.

Coach team A furious - wants ball back to A at POI. Then, as soon as he finishes yelling this - says B should get ball at division line. Since ball was untouched and horn does not stop play we gave the ball to B at endline for throw-in. At half - varsity officials in stands told us we got it wrong. Ball to team A at POI. Later heard that they were tossing us under the bus for the call to team A fans when 2nd half was beginning.

I just don't understand why so many officials that are so anxious to throw other officials under a bus. What gives?
__________________
When I want your opinion - I'll give it to you!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 11:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,054
From your description, you had it right. At your next association meeting or next time you see the V officials, I would respectively talk to them about the play. Have your rules numbers ready.

Edited to add: If the coach needed to rant at anyone, it should have been the time keeper or the timing mechanism.

Last edited by Indianaref; Wed Feb 03, 2010 at 11:38am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 11:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WI
Posts: 825
would love to see them again and tell them. However, I've never seen them before and they don't belong to our association. I looked them up in the directory and they came from about 100 miles from the game site - which was in the city our association bases in. The directory does not indicate whether or not they belong to an association.

What they did just irks me though!
__________________
When I want your opinion - I'll give it to you!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 11:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by chartrusepengui View Post
would love to see them again and tell them. However, I've never seen them before and they don't belong to our association. I looked them up in the directory and they came from about 100 miles from the game site - which was in the city our association bases in. The directory does not indicate whether or not they belong to an association.

What they did just irks me though!
Maybe call the school's AD and try and get in touch with them that way.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 11:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by chartrusepengui View Post
What they did just irks me though!
No doubt. They probably thought there would be no consequences for their misbehavior.

Why not prove them wrong? They got the game from somebody -- talk to that person.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 12:18pm
#thereferee99
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 624
Hearsay?

CP, the Var officials were wrong (from your OP).
The "under the bus" comments were hearsay. Maybe their language was impolitic, maybe they were jerks -- who knows?

When they told you that you got it wrong, I would hope that you would explain that you got it right.
If you have a coach 'furious' at this call, maybe take a look at your mechanics on the play.

Might want to add a little Kabuki theatre to the action. Calling official blows whistle when ball goes OB. You both know what happens next, but you can help others along with something like:
"Partner, did you have a touch?" maybe some visual touch indication and questioning look.
"No touch... Throw in Violation... Here!"
"Good call!"

if you are in proximity and have a moment, "Coach, that is a throw in violation, we are going back to the spot."
__________________
-- #thereferee99
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 12:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WI
Posts: 825
the coach clearly knew he shouldn't get ball as he no sooner got his first words out of mouth and said B should get ball at division line. When he said that, I told him the ball was untouched and so it went back to endline.

I don't think he was so much furious at us as he was at the timer for sounding the horn improperly. I think our mechanics were pretty good. Whistle and open hand up. Look to partner - no touch signal. Said "throw-in violation" (but perhaps not loudly enough. But did tell coach the ball was untouched and he heard that ok.) Point to spot and roll ball to partner who pointed to spot and called for Team B.

I heard about the varsity officials comments from a person I know professionally and trust. When they told us at the half in dressing room that we got it wrong we disagreed and were trying to explain but they just laughed, dropped their bags and left for the stands. Glad I'm not them!!!
__________________
When I want your opinion - I'll give it to you!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 12:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,054
This reminds me of a similar experience earlier this season. G/JV, girl approached us before the game to see if it was ok to play with a plastic tip on her finger. Both my partner and I told her no and to see if she could tape it up. Well, she ran back across to tell her Varsity coach who waved us over to explain. We told him the rule, also told him of a November memo from the IHSAA about the rule from elbow down. He told us we didn't know the rule, that she had played 20 games this year with it on and nobody had said anything about it (disingenuous, no way she could have played that many by end of December). We asked the coach if he knew the rule, why did she come to ask us... Well, at half time of our game, I see the V coach sitting behind the V officials lobbying to have her girl play in the V game (very unprofessional). Lone and behold the V officials let her play with the plastic tip. They told me before their game that it was no more dangerous than a finger. I told them them the rule, the IHSAA memo, and how bad that makes me look. The long and short of it, the problem in Indiana is that coaches vote makes up 100% of post season tournament selection. These guys were protecting their vote. This still pisses me off.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 12:45pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Why did the horn sound? Did they start the clock or did the timer hit the horn on purpose?

Did the varsity guys say you should have considered the horn an IW?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 01:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WI
Posts: 825
Varsity guys never said anything to back their perspective. Just said, and I quote: "you guys screwed the pooch on that throw in call. Ball goes to A" Partner: "I don't think we did - what do you mean?" Them: "you just did, ha ha ha" out the door.

They were courtside when our game was over and we just passed them heading to dressing area.

The horn sounded because a substitute had approached the table after partner administered ball for throw-in. When they couldn't get in immediately they returned to bench as horn sounded. The timer was someone I have seen do several games to was not really new to the job. Player was not at table prior to giving ball for throw in. I saw partner look there before giving A1 the ball.

I feel good about the way we handled the situation and can't say I would do anything differently. I don't see this as an inadvertant whistle.
__________________
When I want your opinion - I'll give it to you!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 01:10pm
#thereferee99
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 624
Sounds pretty good to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chartrusepengui View Post
the coach clearly knew he shouldn't get ball as he no sooner got his first words out of mouth and said B should get ball at division line. When he said that, I told him the ball was untouched and so it went back to endline.

I don't think he was so much furious at us as he was at the timer for sounding the horn improperly. I think our mechanics were pretty good. Whistle and open hand up. Look to partner - no touch signal. Said "throw-in violation" (but perhaps not loudly enough. But did tell coach the ball was untouched and he heard that ok.) Point to spot and roll ball to partner who pointed to spot and called for Team B.

I heard about the varsity officials comments from a person I know professionally and trust. When they told us at the half in dressing room that we got it wrong we disagreed and were trying to explain but they just laughed, dropped their bags and left for the stands. Glad I'm not them!!!
Sounds like you did everything right.

re: V officials.... speechless/stumped. Note to self. Don't ever be THAT guy(s).
__________________
-- #thereferee99
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 01:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vermont
Posts: 96
Did Horn "stop" player A3 ?

Would it have been appropriate to blow the whistle prior to the ball going out of bounds, IF A3 stopped due to the horn and otherwise would have been able to secure the ball?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 01:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WI
Posts: 825
she was scrambling to get ball and was near the ball when horn sounded but I can't say for certain that she would have retrieved it.
__________________
When I want your opinion - I'll give it to you!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 01:20pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Thanks for the clarifications. I would have done the same thing. The only time I would treat the horn like an IW is near the end of a quarter, when the players (and officials) are expecting a horn to end the quarter/half/game. Other than that, it's a good lesson for the players to play through horns and wait for whistles.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 03, 2010, 01:31pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by chartrusepengui View Post
Varsity guys never said anything to back their perspective. Just said, and I quote: "you guys screwed the pooch on that throw in call. Ball goes to A" Partner: "I don't think we did - what do you mean?" Them: "you just did, ha ha ha" out the door.
In WI with no central assigner, I'd probably just say something like "who asked your opinion, anyway?" and then puke on their shoes.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tossing Coin - ASA ukumpire Softball 7 Sat Nov 26, 2011 01:51pm
Tossing the bat SRW Softball 1 Mon May 01, 2006 03:39pm
Tossing a coach Teigan Basketball 5 Sun Jan 29, 2006 05:15am
Inadvertant horn VeeDubbin Basketball 4 Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:26pm
Tossing a coach akalsey Baseball 8 Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:23pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1