Tossing a coach

[akalsey]

Tonight I had two situations where I considered ejecting a coach, but I held back -- one because I wasn't sure I heard what I thought I heard and the other because the comment was directed at my partner and I'm sure he heard it and did nothing.

In the first case, I had a tough call at third. R1 stole second and the throw from the catcher squirted into CF. The runner was slow getting to his feet but still tried to go to third anyway. The throw from F4 in CF was dead on and reached F5 as the runner reached third. The runner started his slide early and kicked up a cloud of dust. The bag was invisible in the dust, but F5 clearly tagged the runner and did so before he reached where I judged the bag to be. I called him out and the base coach yelled a few comments like "c'mon."

A few innings later, R1 tried to stretch to third on a base hit even though his base coach was giving him the stop sign. The thow came in and he was tagged out. It was close, but he was clearly out.

At that point the base coach said "Get one right will you?" Or at least that's what I thought he said. The problem is that I don't know for sure. It was said quietly and I didn't hear clearly. He could have been berating his runner for running through the stop.

In the second case, it was late in the game with two out. When the plate ump called a strike three on the bottom outside corner, the third base coach (of the other team, not the guy from the first scenario) called to his batter, "that's okay, he just wants to go home early."

If he had said that to me, I'd have dumped him right away. But my partner just glanced down the third base line and turned away.

So here's the questions...

In the first case, how certain should I be about a quiet comment before I eject a coach?

In the second case, did I do the right thing? Since the comment was directed at my partner and he didn't toss him, was I right in letting it go as well?

[David B]

Originally posted by akalsey
Tonight I had two situations where I considered ejecting a coach, but I held back -- one because I wasn't sure I heard what I thought I heard and the other because the comment was directed at my partner and I'm sure he heard it and did nothing.

In the first case, I had a tough call at third. R1 stole second and the throw from the catcher squirted into CF. The runner was slow getting to his feet but still tried to go to third anyway. The throw from F4 in CF was dead on and reached F5 as the runner reached third. The runner started his slide early and kicked up a cloud of dust. The bag was invisible in the dust, but F5 clearly tagged the runner and did so before he reached where I judged the bag to be. I called him out and the base coach yelled a few comments like "c'mon."

A few innings later, R1 tried to stretch to third on a base hit even though his base coach was giving him the stop sign. The thow came in and he was tagged out. It was close, but he was clearly out.

At that point the base coach said "Get one right will you?" Or at least that's what I thought he said. The problem is that I don't know for sure. It was said quietly and I didn't hear clearly. He could have been berating his runner for running through the stop.

In the second case, it was late in the game with two out. When the plate ump called a strike three on the bottom outside corner, the third base coach (of the other team, not the guy from the first scenario) called to his batter, "that's okay, he just wants to go home early."

If he had said that to me, I'd have dumped him right away. But my partner just glanced down the third base line and turned away.

So here's the questions...

In the first case, how certain should I be about a quiet comment before I eject a coach?

In the second case, did I do the right thing? Since the comment was directed at my partner and he didn't toss him, was I right in letting it go as well?

I couldn't help but laugh. You're going to eject a coach for saying "c'mon" and then for saying "get one right tonight."

I'm sorry but if that's the worst you're going to hear, then its all gravy.

On plays at third you should always expect the coach to say something. 2 reasons:

a) they are right on the play (even though they have a horrible angle)

b) they want the runner at third

Make the call and ignore such sissy comments.

As far as the other play, don't get involved in your partners stuff. He handled it properly.

IGNORE them. No one wants a "rabbit ears" umpire, and believe me if you start ejecting for such little things, that will be your reputation. I know, we have three or four like that in our association.

Thanks
David

[akalsey]

The first out, there were more than one comment. The comments were still being hurled at me when the next batter took his place in the box. He told me I was in the wrong position. He told me that I should watch the play next time. He asked if I'd like him to clean the bag off for me. In short, he said all the things I've said to umps as a spectator.

I don't want to dump someone. I'd like to do anything I can to avoid it.

[DG]

Originally posted by akalsey
The first out, there were more than one comment. The comments were still being hurled at me when the next batter took his place in the box. He told me I was in the wrong position. He told me that I should watch the play next time. He asked if I'd like him to clean the bag off for me. In short, he said all the things I've said to umps as a spectator.

I don't want to dump someone. I'd like to do anything I can to avoid it.

There comes a time when you have to say "coach, I have heard all I am going to hear" followed by a long pause during which eye contact is maintained (call it a stare). I don't like dumping coaches either, but if you want to keep them in the game you have to send the message.

I used to be a coach, and I used to get on the umpires, but I darn sure knew when the "message" had been delivered.
Establish your message.

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by akalsey
The first out, there were more than one comment. The comments were still being hurled at me when the next batter took his place in the box. He told me I was in the wrong position. He told me that I should watch the play next time. He asked if I'd like him to clean the bag off for me. In short, he said all the things I've said to umps as a spectator.

I don't want to dump someone. I'd like to do anything I can to avoid it.

You let that guy play you like a fine-tuned violin. You let him take charge by doing nothing.

An umpire doesn't run anyone, they do it themselves. Umpiring in a slo-pitch league I never worked before, I was getting comments from the second baseman, who was also the manager. Someone always has to test "the new guy". When I had enough, I called time and stepped out from behind the plate and pointed at the loud mouth. "I'll make a deal with you. You don't tell me how to umpire, and I won't tell you how to play softball. If you can't agree, you can leave, because I get paid to be here". No more chirping for the rest of the game, and season.

[Rich]

Originally posted by akalsey
The first out, there were more than one comment. The comments were still being hurled at me when the next batter took his place in the box. He told me I was in the wrong position. He told me that I should watch the play next time. He asked if I'd like him to clean the bag off for me. In short, he said all the things I've said to umps as a spectator.

I don't want to dump someone. I'd like to do anything I can to avoid it.

Why didn't you say this in the first place? My initial reaction was the same as David's. But reading this -- you should've ejected him on at least two of the comments above.

[David B]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why didn't you say this in the first place? My initial reaction was the same as David's. But reading this -- you should've ejected him on at least two of the comments above.

[Kaliix]

Seriously, you let him stay? I'm with Rich, at first I would have said ignore it. After you explained further what he was saying and how long he was saying it for, you should have tossed him right there.

Honestly, I think you should have told him to stop after he continued on past the first comment and maybe you wouldn't have been in a situation where you were at the point that you should have dumped him. Catch it quick and early and you may have a better game without the comments and the coach may get to watch the game from where he is supposed to.

I did a tournament this weekend. My second game was on the bases after just calling the plate the game before. First batter bunts his way on, on the first pitch. Now R1 leading off the base and the pitcher almost picks him off first. A real close play. Immediately, the four defensive coaches are chirping. I look at them and say "Hey, that'll be enough of that!" Heard nothing the rest of the game.

Set the tone early. Most coaches will take as much as you allow them to have. But they will generally take a hint as well.

Originally posted by akalsey
The first out, there were more than one comment. The comments were still being hurled at me when the next batter took his place in the box. He told me I was in the wrong position. He told me that I should watch the play next time. He asked if I'd like him to clean the bag off for me. In short, he said all the things I've said to umps as a spectator.

I don't want to dump someone. I'd like to do anything I can to avoid it.

[rmstone]

Yeah you'll find 90% of coachs will shut up immediatly following the first warning... at the ballpark I work at we even know exactly which coaches can be shut-up quickly with a warning.