4-42 Throw-in;designated spot

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RefLarry

Team A has the AP arrow to start the second half. A1 is standing completley out of bounds (designated thrower) next to the referee. The referee sounds his whistle and attempts to hand the ball to A1 but A1 runs on the court (leaving the designated-spot area).The ref places the ball on the gound OOB and begins the 5 second count. A1 never touched the ball OOB. A2 steps out of bounds and completes the throw-in before the 5 second count reaches 5.A2 appeared to be the player who was supposed to inbound for team A. it appeared that he forgot at first. Is this play legal?

I believe that it is legal. A1 vacated prior to the ball being placed at the disposal. Therefore, A1 was not the thrower, nor was he a teammate of the thrower who was OOB during the throw-in.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that it is legal. A1 vacated prior to the ball being placed at the disposal. Therefore, A1 was not the thrower, nor was he a teammate of the thrower who was OOB during the throw-in.

With Nevada on this one. Ball was never at A1's disposal.

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

With Nevada on this one. Ball was never at A1's disposal.

So when the ball is placed at A1's disposal, He / She can refuse it and enter the court? Seems like it certainly was at their disposal as the ref was ready and handing it over .

[johnny1784]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

So when the ball is placed at A1's disposal, He / She can refuse it and enter the court? Seems like it certainly was at their disposal as the ref was ready and handing it over .

I agree the ball was at A1's disposal prior to returning onto court.

[Anchor]

I think this is an either/or situation. Arguments could be made that the ball was at the disposal (handed but not accepted) and that it was not (never touched). I'm thinking it is a HTBT situation: if it was obvious trickery to deceive the opponent into guarding the wrong person I'd tend toward calling it; if it was clearly a brain cramp by some kid being a kid I'd tend to let it slide.

Would it make a difference if the official had bounced the ball (begun his bounce) and the thrower just ignored the ball and changed places while the ball dribbled away?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

So when the ball is placed at A1's disposal, He / She can refuse it and enter the court? Seems like it certainly was at their disposal as the ref was ready and handing it over .

Originally Posted by johnny1784

I agree the ball was at A1's disposal prior to returning onto court.

Originally Posted by Anchor

I think this is an either/or situation. Arguments could be made that the ball was at the disposal (handed but not accepted) and that it was not (never touched). I'm thinking it is a HTBT situation: if it was obvious trickery to deceive the opponent into guarding the wrong person I'd tend toward calling it; if it was clearly a brain cramp by some kid being a kid I'd tend to let it slide.

Would it make a difference if the official had bounced the ball (begun his bounce) and the thrower just ignored the ball and changed places while the ball dribbled away?

Why don't the three of you look up 4-Disposal (actually, I think it might be 4-Ball Location / Disposal) and see if that changes your minds.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why don't the three of you look up 4-Disposal (actually, I think it might be 4-Ball Location / Disposal) and see if that changes your minds.

OK, saw Bob's post after my first (darn it).

4-4 Ball location, at disposal

ART. 7 ... A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:
a. Handed to a thrower or free thrower (DIDN'T happen yet in OP)
b. Caught by a player after it is bounced to him/her (MY bad above)
c. Placed on the floor at the spot
d. Available to a player after a goal

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Anchor

I think this is an either/or situation. Arguments could be made that the ball was at the disposal (handed but not accepted) and that it was not (never touched). I'm thinking it is a HTBT situation: if it was obvious trickery to deceive the opponent into guarding the wrong person I'd tend toward calling it; if it was clearly a brain cramp by some kid being a kid I'd tend to let it slide.

Would it make a difference if the official had bounced the ball (begun his bounce) and the thrower just ignored the ball and changed places while the ball dribbled away?

Gut reaction would be that the bounce to the player puts it at his/her disposal. Start the count, nobody else can touch.

Unless you deem it to be a bad bounce, as to a FT shooter, and simply kill it and say let's start this thing over.

Back to the OP, it's a HTBT but seems one could make the case that the ball was put on the ground at the team's disposal, not just A1, so play on. Same as if the ball was placed down if they were tardy breaking their huddle.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Anchor

...
Would it make a difference if the official had bounced the ball (begun his bounce) and the thrower just ignored the ball and changed places while the ball dribbled away?

Me personally, I would hit my whistle and re-administer. As I don't see this happening to me more than once in my career (hasn't yet) I could live with it one time. But I also tend to make sure I have the thrower's attention on throw-ins before I put the ball at their disposal. I have had potential throwers say "Hold on" and then the team switches throwers.

Originally Posted by AMESMAN

Gut reaction would be that the bounce to the player puts it at his/her disposal. Start the count, nobody else can touch.

When you bounce the ball to a free thrower, when is the ball at his disposal? Can the defensive team request and be granted a T-O during the bounce?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that it is legal. A1 vacated prior to the ball being placed at the disposal. Therefore, A1 was not the thrower, nor was he a teammate of the thrower who was OOB during the throw-in.

Agree.