Unusual and weird situation resulting in ejection

[asdf]

You stepped in a pile of dung, tried to clean it off with a rag full of dung and still think there's no dung on your shoe.

Time to re-take the class again Sparky.

[representing]

Fine, I've messed up. I'm moving on now, have a good day, mate.

[representing]

Just to let you guys know, and I'm not trying to start up any arguments. The rule interpreter from the league I ref for has contacted someone from PIAA regarding the play and he, too, said the same thing. Besides f*cking up with not recognizing that it was the scorekeeper who came out onto the court with the coach and trainer, I did it correctly by canceling the FT attempts and retracting the illegally-given technical fouls.

'Nuff said.

[bradfordwilkins]

Why was the technical foul considered illegal?

[representing]

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins

Why was the technical foul considered illegal?

I may have used the wrong term in my last post, but the table officiating crew cannot be given a T. If the referees on the court have a problem with anyone at the table, they can be removed from their duty and not exactly ejected from the gym, or you can eject them altogether.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by representing

Just to let you guys know, and I'm not trying to start up any arguments. The rule interpreter from the league I ref for has contacted someone from PIAA regarding the play and he, too, said the same thing. Besides f*cking up with not recognizing that it was the scorekeeper who came out onto the court with the coach and trainer, I did it correctly by canceling the FT attempts and retracting the illegally-given technical fouls.

'Nuff said.

Boolsh!t.

There's no rules justification to cancel the free throws after they were taken.

It wasn't a correctable error and there isn't any other rules justification that will allow you to go back and fix YOUR mistake, There isn't a competent rules interpreter anywhere that would ever agree with your nonsense.

Lah me......
Feel free to continue to think that you got that part of the play right. It's a waste of time for anybody on here to try to help you become a better official anyway imo. You already think that you know everything.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Boolsh!t.

There's no rules justification to cancel the free throws after they were taken.

It wasn't a correctable error and there isn't any other rules justification that will allow you to go back and fix YOUR mistake, There isn't a competent rules interpreter anywhere that would ever agree with your nonsense.

Lah me......
Feel free to continue to think that you got that part of the play right. It's a waste of time for anybody on here to try to help you become a better official anyway imo. You already think that you know everything.

JaR. I'm trying to respect you but you're constant "bool****" is making me respect you even less.

I've told you (and others) that I have admitted it was my fault. I even said that i apologized to the coach about it. And it was my fault for not at least warning the player to stop flopping.

And when have I ever said "I know it all"? I don't. I got on this forum to learn more, but it seems that no matter what message boards I go to, there will always be guys like you just waiting to prey on the next "noobie" official to convince him/her to hang up the whistle. I will never hang up my whistle. I want to be a damn good official, so I come to you guys to help me out.

I do know that, at least in Pennsylvania, this would have been done the same way by many officials. I've told this situation I had to several of my buddies who have done State tournaments in Pennsylvania and they all said pretty much the same thing. I f*cked up because I didn't realize that it was the scorekeeper doing that before I T'ed him up, but I did take care of it correctly.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by representing

I f*cked up because I didn't realize that it was the scorekeeper doing that before I T'ed him up, but I did take care of it correctly.

Your continued and incorrect assertion in the face of near-universal instruction to the contrary is one reason that many esteemed posters regard you as a know-it-all and unteachable.

[just another ref]

Let me take a stab at this one. You would not have T'd the guy had you known he was table crew and not AC. Okay, fine, we all buy that. But he was on the court to check on the player, momentarily affiliated with that team if you will. This would make the technical foul acceptable to some.


But forget about all that. Suppose the guy who made the snide remarks was simply an innocent bystander, a coach of some other team scouting, someone who undeniably was not associated with either team, but you didn't know all that and T'd him anyway. This is no different than if you called a T on A1 for saying "The ref sucks," and later learned that in fact B1 was the one who said it.

This is a bad mistake, sure, but a mistake is all it is. It is not a correctable error. These were not unmerited free throws. When a technical is called, free throws are merited.

Swallow it. Remember it and learn to be not so quick on the trigger if you're not sure of all the facts, and move on.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by representing

1) I've told you (and others) that I have admitted it was my fault.

2) I got on this forum to learn more, but it seems that no matter what message boards I go to, there will always be guys like you just waiting to prey on the next "noobie" official to convince him/her to hang up the whistle. I will never hang up my whistle. I want to be a damn good official, so I come to you guys to help me out.

3) I do know that, at least in Pennsylvania, this would have been done the same way by many officials.

1) Nope. You keep trying to insist that the rules will allow you to rescind those technical foul free throws. You absolutely refuse to admit that you screwed that up.

2) Guys like me? Go back and read every post in this thread and see if you can find a "guy like you". Nobody here agreed with the way you handled the situation. Nobody! The only one that you can find to agree with you is some mystical, un-named rules interpreter. And btw, I also went back and reviewed my posts to you and I can't see anywhere that I advocated that you hang up your whistle. I did state that you have one helluva lot to learn. I'll stand by that statement.

3) Boolsh!t.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by representing

I do know that, at least in Pennsylvania, this would have been done the same way by many officials. I've told this situation I had to several of my buddies who have done State tournaments in Pennsylvania and they all said pretty much the same thing. I f*cked up because I didn't realize that it was the scorekeeper doing that before I T'ed him up, but I did take care of it correctly.

I've asked around this weekend, and all the officials I've asked, right here in Pennsylvania, disagree completely. Once the free throws have been taken, they wouldn't wipe off the foul and the free throws. Some of them have even done state tournaments! I agree as well, FWIW. So please don't pretend to speak for the whole Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

[icallfouls]

In regard to the flopping that happened so frequently by the same player.

Someone suggested a warning. Try that, it is useful.
Consider calling a blocking foul. Then call it again. The player will soon be departing.

I agree that a T is certainly an option, but at the highest levels this is not called. So I would say that is a bit extreme.

Lastly, review the rule book and casebook in greater detail. Misapplication of the rules is on you. I have reason to suspect that you knew you messed up and tried to explain it to your rules interpreter so as to minimize your culpability.

Officials get better when they recognize the errors they make and eliminate them from their game. Hit the Rule Book and these types of errors will become a thing of the past. You have basically wasted your first 6 years by not knowing the rules better. Your future is in your hands.

[representing]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Someone suggested a warning. Try that, it is useful.
Consider calling a blocking foul. Then call it again. The player will soon be departing.

This is how I will handle this from now on. First time, I will wait until next dead ball to call the player over and warn him (unless you can consider this a violation to stop the play dead). If he continues, I will call a blocking charge the next two times. If he does it once more after that then I will T him up.

What do you guys think? I would hate for a kid to foul out when theoretically he would probably be fouling out and not fouling period (flopping without contact). So I was thinking, a "3 strikes and you're out" moment... Warn and two chances to clean it up with just a simple foul.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

This is how I will handle this from now on. First time, I will wait until next dead ball to call the player over and warn him (unless you can consider this a violation to stop the play dead). If he continues, I will call a blocking charge the next two times. If he does it once more after that then I will T him up.

What do you guys think? I would hate for a kid to foul out when theoretically he would probably be fouling out and not fouling period (flopping without contact). So I was thinking, a "3 strikes and you're out" moment... Warn and two chances to clean it up with just a simple foul.

The phrase "making up your own rules" comes to mind..........again.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

This is how I will handle this from now on. First time, I will wait until next dead ball to call the player over and warn him (unless you can consider this a violation to stop the play dead). If he continues, I will call a blocking charge the next two times. If he does it once more after that then I will T him up.

What do you guys think? I would hate for a kid to foul out when theoretically he would probably be fouling out and not fouling period (flopping without contact). So I was thinking, a "3 strikes and you're out" moment... Warn and two chances to clean it up with just a simple foul.

Here's my recommendation. If you see any contact, I'd be willing to accept a blocking foul on this.
But I prefer a warning.

Just last week, I had a kid pull this. I was C, and as we were heading the other way I go this attention and told him not to do it again. He pretended he didn't know what I was talking about, but he didn't do it again.

If, after one warning, he does it again, ring him up. It'll stop.