Defender counting out loud during inbound

[twing1115]

Wow!!! Egos, egos, everywhere. I never said that I was right. I was
attempting to get a professional ruling. If it is in fact illegal I will stop, as I don't want to be assessed a T. With that said keep your coaching advice to yourself. A good official can have a productive dialog with a coach. My teams are known for talking the entire game. We play an aggressive full court game where we attemp to get our opponents to rush. We trap and are all over the court. We say "shot" everytime. We say "I've got ball." We say I've got help. In traps we yell "Bury, Bury, Bury." (If youve ever played the game you understand the difference between a silent trap and a loud trap). On rebounds we yell ball. We huddle at every opportunity and never talk to officials. This year my team has recieved two technicals. One for hanging on the rim..ref was correct. The other was reaching over the line twice (once touching the ball...this is bound to happen because we chart 5 second calls and average over two per game.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Please don't do this. You can give a T to the player or to the coach, but you cannot give the coach an indirect T for a TF charged to a player on the court.

Got it Snags. Thnx.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by twing1115

I'm a coach and would like to get some clarification. When an offensive team is inbounding the ball I instruct my player who is defending the inbounder to count out loud to five. Yesterday I was told that my players were not allowed to do this. The ref said that I could say anything else "Apples,Apples Apples" but not numbers. I have been searching high and low in a rule book for a rule preventing a team from doing this. The ref gave a warning and said that we could be called for unsportsmanlike or disconsertion. I've read about disconcertion and have only seen explanations that relate to free throws. Please help me out.

Try this, instead. Have your player on the ball try to mirror the ball to make the throw-in difficult, have the other four players deny their men the ball really hard, let the official count to five, and then work on your under-the-basket inbounds play.

There are many other unsporting acts that you can "teach" your team to commit (disconcerting the FT shooter, etc.) in the name of creating a competitive advantage for your team. Unfortunately, none of them is legal. Lots of ways to create anxiety on the part of the opponent. Most involve simply playing hard.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by twing1115

My teams are known for talking the entire game. We play an aggressive full court game where we attemp to get our opponents to rush. We trap and are all over the court. We say "shot" everytime. We say "I've got ball." We say I've got help. In traps we yell "Bury, Bury, Bury." (If youve ever played the game you understand the difference between a silent trap and a loud trap). On rebounds we yell ball. We huddle at every opportunity and never talk to officials.

How annoying.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Wow!!! Egos, egos, everywhere. I never said that I was right. I was
attempting to get a professional ruling. If it is in fact illegal I will stop, as I don't want to be assessed a T. With that said keep your coaching advice to yourself. A good official can have a productive dialog with a coach. My teams are known for talking the entire game. We play an aggressive full court game where we attemp to get our opponents to rush. We trap and are all over the court. We say "shot" everytime. We say "I've got ball." We say I've got help. In traps we yell "Bury, Bury, Bury." (If youve ever played the game you understand the difference between a silent trap and a loud trap). On rebounds we yell ball. We huddle at every opportunity and never talk to officials. This year my team has recieved two technicals. One for hanging on the rim..ref was correct. The other was reaching over the line twice (once touching the ball...this is bound to happen because we chart 5 second calls and average over two per game.

What's this have to do with the OP and the responses you received?

[Vinski]

Even if you are not actually trying to influence the ref, we are so used to coaches and players trying to influence us (“that’s a foul”, “over the back”, “three seconds”, etc.) that hearing a player or coach counting on the inbound is going to fall right into the same category in our minds. Even if you are sincere, most refs aren’t going to buy it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Wow!!! Egos, egos, everywhere. I never said that I was right. I was
attempting to get a professional ruling. If it is in fact illegal I will stop, as I don't want to be assessed a T.

You've been given the ruling and you didn't like it; so you call us out for our egos? Nice.

Again, what level of ball do you coach where the officials have allowed this? You mention hanging on the rim, so I'm going to assume varsity; but it's just a guess.

FWIW, I haven't heard "ball ball ball" or other such noise since I worked my last girls game in Iowa.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fiasco

How annoying.

Really. Until I read "hanging on the rim" I figured it was a girls team. In my experience they're the only ones who yell and talk the whole game. Boys teams usually just play basketball.

To me the player counting is no different than the coach yelling out 1-2-3 to try to get a 3-second violation. It's getting a quick "knock it off" and after that a technical for being unsporting. It has nothing to do with ego. It has to do with the perception that I'm not counting fast enough and that the player (or coach) is trying to help me. No. Way.

[twing1115]

I started out as a college assistant for 5 years and am currently coaching high school. I got this idea after attending a coaching clinic hosted by the late Skip Prosser at Wake Forest when he was speaking about his full court pressure philosophy. When my local official respectfully told me that I could not do this following half time I respectfully asked him why and we simply chatted for a minute. I told my guys to stop and they did. Would it change anything if prior to the game I adressed this with the officail and told them my intent. Personally my feeling is that an official shouln't worry about looking like an azzhole to the crowd. Remember I am an umpire and have taken a ton of you know what when calling balls and strikes from the crowd and never once has it bothered me or influenced the way I make calls.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Vinski

Even if you are not actually trying to influence the ref, we are so used to coaches and players trying to influence us (“that’s a foul”, “over the back”, “three seconds”, etc.) that hearing a player or coach counting on the inbound is going to fall right into the same category in our minds. Even if you are sincere, most refs aren’t going to buy it.

Also known as "Walks like a duck, talks like a duck..."

Originally Posted by RichMSN

To me the player counting is no different than the coach yelling out 1-2-3 to try to get a 3-second violation. It's getting a quick "knock it off" and after that a technical for being unsporting. It has nothing to do with ego. It has to do with the perception that I'm not counting fast enough and that the player (or coach) is trying to help me. No. Way.

I T'd a coach for this very thing a couple of weeks ago.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by twing1115

I started out as a college assistant for 5 years and am currently coaching high school. I got this idea after attending a coaching clinic hosted by the late Skip Prosser at Wake Forest when he was speaking about his full court pressure philosophy. When my local official respectfully told me that I could not do this following half time I respectfully asked him why and we simply chatted for a minute. I told my guys to stop and they did. Would it change anything if prior to the game I adressed this with the officail and told them my intent. Personally my feeling is that an official shouln't worry about looking like an azzhole to the crowd. Remember I am an umpire and have taken a ton of you know what when calling balls and strikes from the crowd and never once has it bothered me or influenced the way I make calls.

The way I look at it: Your team is allowed to act like your team (making defensive calls when on defense and offensive calls when on offense). You wouldn't be allowed to, for example, have one of your players stand near the opposing bench and call "motion" when your team was on defense, or have one of your players yell "screen right" to the opposing point guard when your point guard was bringing the ball up the court (and took advantage of the hedging move the other guard made when hearing the call).

Nor are you allowed to make official calls. Yes, sometime you (or many) call "3 seconds" or "5 seconds" or "travel." But, if those calls are all the time, they get shut down, too.

[twing1115]

Really. Until I read "hanging on the rim" I figured it was a girls team. In my experience they're the only ones who yell and talk the whole game. Boys teams usually just play basketball.

Not sure who your reffing. What about teams that play a match-up zone? Is it girly for them to talk? Should players be silent on screens? Every coach in america has there team talking in practice when they are doing shell defense. Every sucessful trapping team must talk in transition to scramble for match-ups. If your going to practice that way why wouldn't you play that way?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by twing1115

If your going to practice that way why wouldn't you play that way?

Because it's annoying?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Not sure who your reffing. What about teams that play a match-up zone? Is it girly for them to talk? Should players be silent on screens? Every coach in america has there team talking in practice when they are doing shell defense. Every sucessful trapping team must talk in transition to scramble for match-ups. If your going to practice that way why wouldn't you play that way?

I'm talking about the "only for distraction" "BALL BALL BALL BALL" idiocy. I'm not talking about complete silence.

[jdw3018]

As opposed to some of the posts, I've got no problem at all with the talking. Lots of talking is fine. It's your and your team's prerogative.

However, if that talking goes from communicating into unsporting acts, expect it to be enforced. And every official has slightly different judgement on what's unsporting, so if one tells you to cut something out, I'd listen.