Defender counting out loud during inbound

[twing1115]

I'm a coach and would like to get some clarification. When an offensive team is inbounding the ball I instruct my player who is defending the inbounder to count out loud to five. Yesterday I was told that my players were not allowed to do this. The ref said that I could say anything else "Apples,Apples Apples" but not numbers. I have been searching high and low in a rule book for a rule preventing a team from doing this. The ref gave a warning and said that we could be called for unsportsmanlike or disconsertion. I've read about disconcertion and have only seen explanations that relate to free throws. Please help me out.

[Raymond]

Why do you have you players count out loud?

[Jurassic Referee]

See rule 10-4-1(b)-"attempting to influence an official's decision". That's exactly why you're teaching your players to do that. And note that you will get charged with the "T" because you are teaching your players to do that. We could also call a "T" on your player for the same reason instead of calling one on you.

I personally won't allow it and we teach our officials not to allow it either. Warn and wack. The sole purpose of that ploy is to try and intimidate us into making a call.

Do you coach your players to say the same thing during your throw-ins?

Bad coach!

Bad, bad coach!

[Nevadaref]

I can tell you that the throwing team would probably be allowed about 10 seconds to make the throw-in because I would get distracted and lose my count, if a defending team was doing this.

Then I would stand right next to that coach's huddle during the next time-out and count the seconds of this time period out loud while he tried to talk with his team.

[twing1115]

Not attempting to influence the officials at all. I've been coaching for 8 years and never recieved a T. I have great respect for officials. In the spring time I umpire baseball games so I know how it feels to be on the other side. My reason for doing this is to create anxiety in the inbounder and get him to rush. We intentiotionally count a bit faster than the official and never once have I, or my team complained to an official after we get to five. If it is indeed a violation I will stop but I want to know the correct rule that prevents it.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Not attempting to influence the officials at all. I've been coaching for 8 years and never recieved a T. I have great respect for officials. In the spring time I umpire baseball games so I know how it feels to be on the other side. My reason for doing this is to create anxiety in the inbounder and get him to rush. We intentiotionally count a bit faster than the official and never once have I, or my team complained to an official after we get to five. If it is indeed a violation I will stop but I want to know the correct rule that prevents it.

The rule that would apply is the one cited above. Many may interpret it as unsporting behavior. If an official warns you and/or your players to knock it off, it's because he deems it unsporting. I'd listen in those cases.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Not attempting to influence the officials at all. I've been coaching for 8 years and never recieved a T. I have great respect for officials. In the spring time I umpire baseball games so I know how it feels to be on the other side. My reason for doing this is to create anxiety in the inbounder and get him to rush. [font color = red]We intentionally count a bit faster than the official and never once have I, or my team complained to an official after we get to five.[/font] If it is indeed a violation I will stop but I want to know the correct rule that prevents it.

And if the official doesn't call a violation when/if your fast count hits 5, the official looks like an azzhole.

It's not a violation. It's a technical foul for committing an unsporting act.

You were given the rules citation that says a technical foul can be called for that act. If you get one, don't be suprised. You came here wanting an answer and you got one. It's up to you whether you want to believe the answer or not.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Not attempting to influence the officials at all. I've been coaching for 8 years and never recieved a T. I have great respect for officials. In the spring time I umpire baseball games so I know how it feels to be on the other side. My reason for doing this is to create anxiety in the inbounder and get him to rush. We intentiotionally count a bit faster than the official and never once have I, or my team complained to an official after we get to five. If it is indeed a violation I will stop but I want to know the correct rule that prevents it.

Not attempting to influence the officials at all.
[I]right up there with....
The check is in the mail

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Not attempting to influence the officials at all. I've been coaching for 8 years and never recieved a T. I have great respect for officials. In the spring time I umpire baseball games so I know how it feels to be on the other side. My reason for doing this is to create anxiety in the inbounder and get him to rush. We intentiotionally count a bit faster than the official and never once have I, or my team complained to an official after we get to five. If it is indeed a violation I will stop but I want to know the correct rule that prevents it.

Coach, the problem is the perception that by counting your player is telling the official that he is not correctly doing his job of accurately counting the five seconds for the opponent. It just plain looks like your player is attempting to embarrass the official. (JR has so eloquently pointed this out. )
If you truly have respect for the effort that officials make, then you will take the recommendation which you have already received from your local game officials and have the player say something else besides numbers.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Not attempting to influence the officials at all. blah blah blah blah.... My reason for doing this is to create anxiety in the inbounder and get him to rush. We intentiotionally count a bit faster than the official and never once have I, or my team complained to an official after we get to five. If it is indeed a violation I will stop but I want to know the correct rule that prevents it.

Coach, creating anxiety for the thrower is not a valid reason for doing this, either. In the end, your "intent" really doesn't matter as it always will come across like you're trying to influence the officials.

Do you have your defenders count for closely guarded? What about backcourt? How about free throws and three seconds?

I am curious as to what level of ball you coach; more specifically and on point, what level of ball are the officials letting you get away with this garbage?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Coach, creating anxiety for the thrower is not a valid reason for doing this, either. In the end, your "intent" really doesn't matter as it always will come across like you're trying to influence the officials.

Do you have your defenders count for closely guarded? What about backcourt? How about free throws and three seconds?I am curious as to what level of ball you coach; more specifically and on point, what level of ball are the officials letting you get away with this garbage?

Snaqs,
Please do not give him any more ideas.....

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by twing1115

I'm a coach and would like to get some clarification. When an offensive team is inbounding the ball I instruct my player who is defending the inbounder to count out loud to five. Yesterday I was told that my players were not allowed to do this. The ref said that I could say anything else "Apples,Apples Apples" but not numbers. I have been searching high and low in a rule book for a rule preventing a team from doing this. The ref gave a warning and said that we could be called for unsportsmanlike or disconsertion. I've read about disconcertion and have only seen explanations that relate to free throws. Please help me out.

Here's some free advice: Your intent here is obvious and is all around a bad idea. Stop trying to find ways to influence the game through underhanded, disingenuous techniques and start teaching your kids how to play better basketball and be better human beings.

[twing1115]

Wow!!! Egos, egos, everywhere. I never said that I was right. I was
attempting to get a professional ruling. If it is in fact illegal I will stop, as I don't want to be assessed a T. With that said keep your coaching advice to yourself. A good official can have a productive dialog with a coach. My teams are known for talking the entire game. We play an aggressive full court game where we attemp to get our opponents to rush. We trap and are all over the court. We say "shot" everytime. We say "I've got ball." We say I've got help. In traps we yell "Bury, Bury, Bury." (If youve ever played the game you understand the difference between a silent trap and a loud trap). On rebounds we yell ball. We huddle at every opportunity and never talk to officials. This year my team has recieved two technicals. One for hanging on the rim..ref was correct. The other was reaching over the line twice (once touching the ball...this is bound to happen because we chart 5 second calls and average over two per game.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by twing1115

My teams are known for talking the entire game. We play an aggressive full court game where we attemp to get our opponents to rush. We trap and are all over the court. We say "shot" everytime. We say "I've got ball." We say I've got help. In traps we yell "Bury, Bury, Bury." (If youve ever played the game you understand the difference between a silent trap and a loud trap). On rebounds we yell ball. We huddle at every opportunity and never talk to officials.

How annoying.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fiasco

How annoying.

Really. Until I read "hanging on the rim" I figured it was a girls team. In my experience they're the only ones who yell and talk the whole game. Boys teams usually just play basketball.

To me the player counting is no different than the coach yelling out 1-2-3 to try to get a 3-second violation. It's getting a quick "knock it off" and after that a technical for being unsporting. It has nothing to do with ego. It has to do with the perception that I'm not counting fast enough and that the player (or coach) is trying to help me. No. Way.