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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:17pm
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First time, and it happened twice

Tonight, Girls JV. First time ever this has happened.

After warning horn goes off for a Time-Out, visiting team sends a player to the table to sub in. I noticed this happened when I was getting ready to hand the ball in for a throw-in. I turn around to tell the coach that after the first horn goes off (warning horn) the table is closed for any substitutions.

With 10 seconds left in the close game, a Time-Out is granted and right after the first horn goes off I see a player going to the table to check in from the same team as above. I tell her that she has to wait so the coach pulls her and puts her back on the bench as she probably wasn't going to get in at all.

Rulebook still in the car, too lazy to get it but did I get this right? It was one of those moments where something hardly happens, but when it does the rule pops out of your sub-conscious mind. I believe I did look this up after seeing it happen in an NCAA game where the official stopped the player from coming in after the warning horn goes off.
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Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:22pm
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I'll give you the reference... you can look it up when you get your book.

3-3-1a
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 View Post
I'll give you the reference... you can look it up when you get your book.

3-3-1a
Not gonna make this easy for me are you? haha. I'll go get my rulebook now.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:35pm
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Originally Posted by tjones1 View Post
I'll give you the reference... you can look it up when you get your book.

3-3-1a
3-3-1
A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorer, giving his/her number.
a. Between quarters, at halftime and during a time-out, the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorer, prior to the warning signal which is sounded 15 seconds before the end of the intermission or the time-out.

So I was correct then. Thanks TJ.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by representing View Post
Not gonna make this easy for me are you? haha. I'll go get my rulebook now.
I made it pretty easy for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by representing View Post
3-3-1
A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorer, giving his/her number.
a. Between quarters, at halftime and during a time-out, the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorer, prior to the warning signal which is sounded 15 seconds before the end of the intermission or the time-out.

So I was correct then. Thanks TJ.
Yes, you were correct - good call!
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Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:41pm
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Had this the other night, too. I get it about once or twice a year. I was T getting ready to administer a throwin in the FC following a TO, I'm table side. C whistles for a sub just as I'm about to hand it in. I turn and ask the table, who's already shaking his head. "Did he report in time?" "No, he didn't."
Coach didn't say a word.
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Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:49pm
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Since the OP has been answered, mind if I branch the thread off into a related topic regarding time-outs and subsitutions?

This thread is timely, I was just reading through the section in Rule 10 about substitutes entering without reporting and had a question regarding our duties during a time out.

I don't recall this being mentioned in my training so I'll go ahead and ask a newbie question, should we be taking a note of who the players are during a time-out and that a sub is not sent in without having them report?

If so, is this something you pre-game with your partner(s)?
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Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Since the OP has been answered, mind if I branch the thread off into a related topic regarding time-outs and subsitutions?

This thread is timely, I was just reading through the section in Rule 10 about substitutes entering without reporting and had a question regarding our duties during a time out.

I don't recall this being mentioned in my training so I'll go ahead and ask a newbie question, should we be taking a note of who the players are during a time-out and that a sub is not sent in without having them report?

If so, is this something you pre-game with your partner(s)?
My opinion; no. Players are supposed to check in before substituting another player. They know that and becomes a force of habit. If a player tries to sneak in without reporting, that's fine with me as long as I don't see it or notice it. Can't call what you don't see, right? If the opposing coach mentions something about a player who wasn't there before the time out, or the table gets my attention about this, then it is a technical foul for entering the game without reporting to the table, as long as I can confirm with the table that he/she wasn't a player prior to the time out, and has not checked in before time out ended.
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Old Mon Jan 11, 2010, 11:56pm
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Originally Posted by representing View Post
Not gonna make this easy for me are you? haha. I'll go get my rulebook now.
Rep, not being critical here but, Tjones shouldn't make it easy for you.
IMHO, you learn a lot more here at the forum if you have your rule book and case book by your side. I find that if I follow the thread using my books, either to come up with the correct rule application of a poster's sitch; or to follow the citations that the vets post in their replies, I learn the rule, the interpertation of the rule, and the proper application of the rule more thoroughly. I tend to retain it better (especially in the heat of game), as opposed to rote memory. I think this is a good approach, if like me, you're a newer official.
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Old Tue Jan 12, 2010, 12:03am
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Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
Rep, not being critical here but, Tjones shouldn't make it easy for you.
IMHO, you learn a lot more here at the forum if you have your rule book and case book by your side. I find that if I follow the thread using my books, either to come up with the correct rule application of a poster's sitch; or to follow the citations that the vets post in their replies, I learn the rule, the interpertation of the rule, and the proper application of the rule more thoroughly. I tend to retain it better (especially in the heat of game), as opposed to rote memory. I think this is a good approach, if like me, you're a newer official.
Thanks KJ. I'm not a newer official, I was just too lazy to get my rulebook that I thought was in the car, but was actually in my gym bag that I took with me last week to pick-up basketball so I could read a few things when I'm not playing.

And I know some of us only knows when someone's joking about anything when he/she puts in an emote (i.e. ) but I was actually just kidding with TJ when I said that. I like to kid a lot.
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Old Tue Jan 12, 2010, 12:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Since the OP has been answered, mind if I branch the thread off into a related topic regarding time-outs and subsitutions?

This thread is timely, I was just reading through the section in Rule 10 about substitutes entering without reporting and had a question regarding our duties during a time out.

I don't recall this being mentioned in my training so I'll go ahead and ask a newbie question, should we be taking a note of who the players are during a time-out and that a sub is not sent in without having them report?

If so, is this something you pre-game with your partner(s)?
While awareness is always a good thing, i wouldn't try to remember something like this. It's not really worth the effort for the amount of times you'd actually catch something.

Usually, the way it happens is that, after the timeout has completed, the coach will send the sub to the table, so you'll see it.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 12, 2010, 01:06am
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Originally Posted by representing View Post
Thanks KJ. I'm not a newer official,...
Yes, you are. In another thread you posted your age and you can't have been working HS level ball for more than five years.

Just accept it, ACE. You are still young and learning.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 12, 2010, 01:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Since the OP has been answered, mind if I branch the thread off into a related topic regarding time-outs and subsitutions?

This thread is timely, I was just reading through the section in Rule 10 about substitutes entering without reporting and had a question regarding our duties during a time out.

I don't recall this being mentioned in my training so I'll go ahead and ask a newbie question, should we be taking a note of who the players are during a time-out and that a sub is not sent in without having them report?

If so, is this something you pre-game with your partner(s)?
Strictly speaking that is the scorer's job, but if the official notices it, then he should deal with it.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 12, 2010, 01:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by representing View Post
3-3-1
A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorer, giving his/her number.
a. Between quarters, at halftime and during a time-out, the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorer, prior to the warning signal which is sounded 15 seconds before the end of the intermission or the time-out.

So I was correct then. Thanks TJ.
Ok, an interesting question from the table's POV: what is to be done if anyone at the table witnesses a player coming in to sub after the warning horn?
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Old Tue Jan 12, 2010, 01:20am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Yes, you are. In another thread you posted your age and you can't have been working HS level ball for more than five years.

Just accept it, ACE. You are still young and learning.
We are just disagreeing on how many years the word "newer" covers. I was thinking two or three. This is my 6th season officiating. I do accept that I am young and learning, but I don't consider myself a "newer" official.
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