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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 02:16am
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Coaches questioning table crew

Had several situations happen tonight where the visiting coaches were questioning the table crew.

Majority of the complaints was due to the shot clock.

For example: Girls' Varsity, Home shoots the ball with 1 sec. left on shot clock, air ball, visiting team had the rebound yet shot clock violation was going to be called if this was going to be a CE, however officials called it as a NCE due to play continuing. In this case, the visiting coach was trying to say a shot clock violation due to the air ball, however her team had the ball when the buzzer sounded before the reset happened. as her team had control off the rebound.

Can coaches question the officials concerning the shot clock, if the shot clock operator was unable to reset the shot clock due to interference from the coach yelling?

Last edited by chseagle; Sun Jan 03, 2010 at 02:38am.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 02:33am
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The coaches can and will question anything which they can during a game. It is matter of what the officials will allow. Personally, I don't permit the coaches to yell at the table crew. They are my teammates for that time, and I would treat it the same as if they were hollering at me or my partner.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 02:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The coaches can and will question anything which they can during a game. It is matter of what the officials will allow. Personally, I don't permit the coaches to yell at the table crew. They are my teammates for that time, and I would treat it the same as if they were hollering at me or my partner.
Nevada,

Another question for you, & anyone else who wants to answer. Should &/or can the table crew during a dead ball, buzz the officials if they feel that the coach is hindering table operations?
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 03:22am
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I think that it would be best to wait for a dead ball at which the clock is also stopped, so don't do it after a made basket, and then get the attention of the officials.

If the table crew is being hassled by anyone, I would want to know about it, especially if they believe that it is negatively impacting their duties.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 03:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I think that it would be best to wait for a dead ball at which the clock is also stopped, so don't do it after a made basket, and then get the attention of the officials.

If the table crew is being hassled by anyone, I would want to know about it, especially if they believe that it is negatively impacting their duties.
As far as I'm concerned anymore a dead ball is between intermissions, during time-outs, & after reporting a foul but b4 the free throws or throw-in (AKA Clock is not running).

This was the 1st time that I can remember that the visiting coaches were so vocal against the table crew.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 04:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
As far as I'm concerned anymore a dead ball is between intermissions, during time-outs, & after reporting a foul but b4 the free throws or throw-in (AKA Clock is not running).

This was the 1st time that I can remember that the visiting coaches were so vocal against the table crew.
That may be your defintion but it is not correct.

It is also dead on a made basket after the ball drops through the basket and stays dead until the throw-in team has the ball OOB for a throwin (or the official feels they should have had the ball OOB for a throwin).

It is also dead the moment the official blows the whistle for a foul (or until an airborne shooter lands)....not just after the foul is reported.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 04:50am
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
That may be your defintion but it is not correct.

It is also dead on a made basket after the ball drops through the basket and stays dead until the throw-in team has the ball OOB for a throwin (or the official feels they should have had the ball OOB for a throwin).

It is also dead the moment the official blows the whistle for a foul (or until an airborne shooter lands)....not just after the foul is reported.
Not true.
Not correct, again.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 06:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
That may be your defintion but it is not correct.

It is also dead on a made basket after the ball drops through the basket and stays dead until the throw-in team has the ball OOB for a throwin (or the official feels they should have had the ball OOB for a throwin).

It is also dead the moment the official blows the whistle for a foul (or until an airborne shooter lands)....not just after the foul is reported.
Cameron,

My definition of a dead ball is from a timer's POV. How I see a dead ball situation is that no player has control of the ball for a throw-in or free throw attempt (after a foul, during a time-out, or intermission). If the clock is running, the ball is not dead, unless a running clock rule is in effect (as the clock only stops for time-outs or intermissions).

IOW, when the timer can buzz the officials to signal that a substitute is waiting at the table or when play is stopped.

Last edited by chseagle; Sun Jan 03, 2010 at 06:19am.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 08:42am
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Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Can coaches question the officials concerning the shot clock, if the shot clock operator was unable to reset the shot clock due to interference from the coach yelling?
I'm at a loss to see how the coach calling for a violation prevented the operator from resetting the clock.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 09:55am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I'm at a loss to see how the coach calling for a violation prevented the operator from resetting the clock.
Yelling right in their ear as the play is happening, by standing right next to the table, instead of being within the coaches box.

Also throughout the game, the coach was trying to tell the shot clock operator how to do things.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, the coach was yelling at the officials that the violation happened, even though it was her team who had the rebound off the air ball (Team control had switched) as the shot clock horn was sounding. The Shot Clock Operator was in the process of resetting the shot clock when this happened, in turn not allowing the shot clock operator to complete their duties.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 10:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Yelling right in their ear as the play is happening, by standing right next to the table, instead of being within the coaches box.

Also throughout the game, the coach was trying to tell the shot clock operator how to do things.
Where's crowd control when you really need 'em?
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 10:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Yelling right in their ear as the play is happening, by standing right next to the table, instead of being within the coaches box.

Also throughout the game, the coach was trying to tell the shot clock operator how to do things.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, the coach was yelling at the officials that the violation happened, even though it was her team who had the rebound off the air ball (Team control had switched) as the shot clock horn was sounding. The Shot Clock Operator was in the process of resetting the shot clock when this happened, in turn not allowing the shot clock operator to complete their duties.
First of all, coaches yell all the time, what's new. Why would this prevent sc operator from resetting clock? These situations are getting really annoying.
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 10:11am
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found actual photo of your situation

Part of Chseagle table crew, shot clock operator

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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 10:14am
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Not an invitation to debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Yelling right in their ear as the play is happening, by standing right next to the table, instead of being within the coaches box.

Also throughout the game, the coach was trying to tell the shot clock operator how to do things.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, the coach was yelling at the officials that the violation happened, even though it was her team who had the rebound off the air ball (Team control had switched) as the shot clock horn was sounding. The Shot Clock Operator was in the process of resetting the shot clock when this happened, in turn not allowing the shot clock operator to complete their duties.

Please check in your Funk & Wagnalls for reference to "rhetorical question"
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Old Sun Jan 03, 2010, 10:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Had several situations happen tonight where the visiting coaches were questioning the table crew.

Majority of the complaints was due to the shot clock.

For example: Girls' Varsity, Home shoots the ball with 1 sec. left on shot clock, air ball, visiting team had the rebound yet shot clock violation was going to be called if this was going to be a CE, however officials called it as a NCE due to play continuing. In this case, the visiting coach was trying to say a shot clock violation due to the air ball, however her team had the ball when the buzzer sounded before the reset happened. as her team had control off the rebound.

Can coaches question the officials concerning the shot clock, if the shot clock operator was unable to reset the shot clock due to interference from the coach yelling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Yelling right in their ear as the play is happening, by standing right next to the table, instead of being within the coaches box.

Also throughout the game, the coach was trying to tell the shot clock operator how to do things.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, the coach was yelling at the officials that the violation happened, even though it was her team who had the rebound off the air ball (Team control had switched) as the shot clock horn was sounding. The Shot Clock Operator was in the process of resetting the shot clock when this happened, in turn not allowing the shot clock operator to complete their duties.
chseagle,
While many coaches yell during games, there need to be limits to this yelling. They can yell at their players all they want. They can yell about a call every now and then -- as long as they let it go and move on to coaching, again. If the shot clock operator has made a few mistakes, coaches may react to that as well.

However, I do NOT want them yelling at the table personnel on an ongoing basis -- especially if they are out of their box. This can be particularly problematic when doing youth/MS games where the scorers and timers may be inexperienced, but I don't want it happening at HS games, either.

I will try to give you some examples of situations that would meet Nevadaref's suggestions in scorekeeper's terms. If you believe that a coach is being unreasonable, I would suggest sounding the horn IMMEDIATELY after a violation has stopped the clock OR when an official comes over to report a foul OR when the official comes over to report a time out OR between quarters OR any other time that an official's whistle will require a restart in which one of the officials puts the ball back into play (net gets hung up after a basket, etc.). You will not being stopping the flow of play during these intervals. At the same time, you will be able to get your point across.
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