Coaches questioning table crew

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Yelling right in their ear as the play is happening, by standing right next to the table, instead of being within the coaches box.

While that's a problem (or two), I'm still at a loss to see how it prevented the shot clock operator from resetting the shot clock.

Also throughout the game, the coach was trying to tell the shot clock operator how to do things.

Also a problem. But, it leads to the possibility that the operator was not correctly performing his/her duties.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, the coach was yelling at the officials that the violation happened, even though it was her team who had the rebound off the air ball (Team control had switched) as the shot clock horn was sounding. The Shot Clock Operator was in the process of resetting the shot clock when this happened, in turn not allowing the shot clock operator to complete their duties.

I'm still confused. Which happened first -- the "rebound" or the "horn?" And, if the shot clock operator was "in the process" of resetting it, then a yell from the coach should not prevent the button from being pressed and released.

[tomegun]

Within reason - not while a shot is in the air for example - I would want to know immediately if a coach is hindering the table crew from doing their job. Scoring errors can occur and I don't want that to happen.

Let the Chseagle feeding frenzy continue.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Cameron,

My definition of a dead ball is from a timer's POV. How I see a dead ball situation is that no player has control of the ball for a throw-in or free throw attempt (after a foul, during a time-out, or intermission). If the clock is running, the ball is not dead, unless a running clock rule is in effect (as the clock only stops for time-outs or intermissions).

IOW, when the timer can buzz the officials to signal that a substitute is waiting at the table or when play is stopped.

Perhaps you should use the correct definitions and terminology...even as a timer. You're mixing two things....dead/live ball and running/stopped clock. All four combinations are possible. The proper time that a timer can buzz for subs when the ball is dead AND the clock is stopped. If either of those is not true, then no subs can be made.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

While that's a problem (or two), I'm still at a loss to see how it prevented the shot clock operator from resetting the shot clock.



Also a problem. But, it leads to the possibility that the operator was not correctly performing his/her duties.



I'm still confused. Which happened first -- the "rebound" or the "horn?" And, if the shot clock operator was "in the process" of resetting it, then a yell from the coach should not prevent the button from being pressed and released.

The visiting team had control of the rebound, just as the buzzer was going off, about 1/10th of a second later. It was the visiting team that had team & player control at the time, yet it was the visitng coach yelling for the violation due to the air ball.

The other problem is that the shot clock buzzer wasn't heard by the officials due to the noise that the visiting team spectators & coach were making. Also apparently the volume level of the Shot Clock Buzzer is softer than it should be.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're mixing two things....dead/live ball and running/stopped clock.

And you are confusing dead/live ball situations yourself as I pointed out in my previous post in this thread. You are mistaken about when the ball becomes dead in foul situations as well as the impact of an airborne shooter.

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

The visiting team had control of the rebound, just as the buzzer was going off, about 1/10th of a second later. It was the visiting team that had team & player control at the time, yet it was the visitng coach yelling for the violation due to the air ball.

The other problem is that the shot clock buzzer wasn't heard by the officials due to the noise that the visiting team spectators & coach were making. Also apparently the volume level of the Shot Clock Buzzer is softer than it should be.

It aint easy being you ! Are bullhorns illegal ?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

It aint easy being you ! Are bullhorns illegal ?

Well it would be a different sound than the buzzer used by the timer.

I was thinking of using the gong idea though for the shot clock.

[zm1283]

I may have posted this before, and it's a little OT, but Missouri uses a starter's pistol to signal the end of periods in district and state playoff games when the gym is so loud and the horn can't be heard.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I may have posted this before, and it's a little OT, but Missouri uses a starter's pistol to signal the end of periods in district and state playoff games when the gym is so loud and the horn can't be heard.

This might work in Mo, but, in DC/NVA, this might lead to some bad situations.......

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

This might work in Mo, but, in DC/NVA, this might lead to some bad situations.......

... like real bullets instead of blanks?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... like real bullets instead of blanks?

in some Arenas....

[Forksref]

Many years ago I was part of a 4-man crew at a game in Fremont, OH. We'd send 4 guys out and I was one of the 2 JV guys. That was how we broke in new guys. We were watching the varsity game when the visiting coach went to the table and grabbed the scorer by his tie and pulled him across the table and chewed him out. It was one of the wildest things I've ever seen at a game. Apparently the scorer was bad-mouthing the visiting players as they reported to check in. The varsity guys T'd up the coach and the game went on. Obviously, things were a little tense after that incident.

When I was coaching, I had an incident where the home scorer (we were the visitors) did some talking to our players when they checked in. When I became aware of it, I told the scorer to knock it off. That ended it.

I think those who work at the table need to be reminded that they are officials and need to remain neutral.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Forksref

At a game in Fremont, OH. The visiting coach went to the table and grabbed the scorer by his tie and pulled him across the table and chewed him out.

I thought chseagle worked in Connell, Washington; not Fremont, Ohio.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I thought chseagle worked in Connell, Washington; not Fremont, Ohio.

And I think he's worked games at the Sam Houston Institute of Technology.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Forksref

Many years ago I was part of a 4-man crew at a game in Fremont, OH. We'd send 4 guys out and I was one of the 2 JV guys. That was how we broke in new guys. We were watching the varsity game when the visiting coach went to the table and grabbed the scorer by his tie and pulled him across the table and chewed him out. It was one of the wildest things I've ever seen at a game. Apparently the scorer was bad-mouthing the visiting players as they reported to check in. The varsity guys T'd up the coach and the game went on. Obviously, things were a little tense after that incident.

When I was coaching, I had an incident where the home scorer (we were the visitors) did some talking to our players when they checked in. When I became aware of it, I told the scorer to knock it off. That ended it.

I think those who work at the table need to be reminded that they are officials and need to remain neutral.

Sounds like an assault to me. I agree it would be wrong for table personnel to make comments to the players, but even if they did it doesn't justify a physical assault. The coach is lucky he didn't leave the gym in handcuffs.

Here it would be considered gross unsportsmanlike conduct - flagrant T/immediate ejection of the visiting coach, report to the state and very likely the end of his HS coaching career.