Can't believe it, but I heard it

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by harmbu

I just heard an official say, "He touched the backboard. That's basket interference. The shot is good." Does this make anybody else cringe? No it is between quarters and the game is being held up while the visiting team's scorekeeper is on the floor addressing something with the officials.

CHSEAGLE is that you?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by grunewar

CHSEAGLE is that you?

I haven't done scorebook in 10 years. I never question the officials on items dealing with play on the court. I may make comments to the other table personnel about my observations, but I don't question the officials about their calls directly.

I leave the direct questioning of the officials to the coaches.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I may make comments to the other table personnel about my observations, but I don't question the officials about their calls directly.

I leave the direct questioning of the officials to the coaches.

Iow you'll crap on the officials but you don't have the 'nads to do so to their face.

Got it.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Iow you'll crap on the officials but you don't have the 'nads to do so to their face.

Got it.

I choose my words carefully when I do make comments. I may say something like "should of been a travel, but probably couldn't see it". Most of the time, it's about missed calls that couldn't be seen due to being out of position or too much traffic in the way to make the call.

I realize that officials are humans & can't call everything.

If I get the opportunity to ask about the call, after the fact, I'll ask about it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I....... I don't question the officials about their calls directly.

Originally Posted by chseagle

If I get the opportunity to ask about the call, after the fact, I'll ask about it.

So who is it that you ask?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So who is it that you ask?

The officials, from that game, if I have a question about something I saw. I'll ask them about the play using case book-like scenarios.

When making the comments I mention also that the officials have final say.

In the gym where I'm normally doing scoreboard operations/timer, I'm not at court-level, but am above it. So there's a bit of an elevated view of plays.

Like I said earlier, I realize officials are human & calls can be missed.

There's a continual mention on here of having "definite knowledge", if an official can't see the play clearly due to varying reasons, then how can "definite knowledge" be used on a play if it cannot be seen.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by chseagle

There's a continual mention on here of having "definite knowledge", if an official can't see the play clearly due to varying reasons, then how can "definite knowledge" be used on a play if it cannot be seen.

Definite knowledge refers to knowing how much time is left on the clock. For example, if a coach requests a time out with two seconds left on the clock, but the scoreboard operator lags on stopping the clock, a good official should glance at the clock when he/she grants the timeout (or any official for that matter). If the official has definite knowledge of how much time is left on the clock, we can reset the clock and go from there. If know definite knowledge exists, then we can't put any time on the clock.

Check out 5-10

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I choose my words carefully when I do make comments. I may say something like "should of been a travel, but probably couldn't see it". Most of the time, it's about missed calls that couldn't be seen due to being out of position or too much traffic in the way to make the call.

You know, it never fails to amaze me how someone 50-60 or more feet from a play with a relatively crummy angle of view, and minimal knowledge and even less understanding of the rules, thinks they have a better look and better judgment than a trained official who's right on top of it. If the table were the best place to call the game from they'd put the officials there instead of having them on the court.

For table personnel to make comments on a call or lack thereof from their own myopic viewpoint is unprofessional.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

You know, it never fails to amaze me how someone 50-60 or more feet from a play with a relatively crummy angle of view, and minimal knowledge and even less understanding of the rules, thinks they have a better look and better judgment than a trained official who's right on top of it. If the table were the best place to call the game from they'd put the officials there instead of having them on the court.

For table personnel to make comments on a call or lack thereof from their own myopic viewpoint is unprofessional.

Sheez, Tim, don't hold back. Why not tell us how you really feel?

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

Sheez, Tim, don't hold back. Why not tell us how you really feel?

Because I might accidentally offend someone?

I'm all for subtlety when it's effective, but sometimes you just have to drag out the old cluex4......or maybe I'm just cranky because I didn't get my post game nap yesterday, since it took 3 hours to get home from my game at Wilsonville HS.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

You know, it never fails to amaze me how someone 50-60 or more feet from a play with a relatively crummy angle of view, and minimal knowledge and even less understanding of the rules, thinks they have a better look and better judgment than a trained official who's right on top of it. If the table were the best place to call the game from they'd put the officials there instead of having them on the court.

For table personnel to make comments on a call or lack thereof from their own myopic viewpoint is unprofessional.

Can't the same thing be said of coaches or regular spectators?

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Can't the same thing be said of coaches or regular spectators?

Here is the difference.....table personnel are part of the crew. All have the same crappy angle, but as Tim said, to do it as part of the table personnel is unprofessional.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Can't the same thing be said of coaches or regular spectators?

Sure...it doesn't change the point though. If the best position to officiate was from the stands or from the benches, then we'd go ahead and place them there.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

You know, it never fails to amaze me how someone 50-60 or more feet from a play with a relatively crummy angle of view, and minimal knowledge and even less understanding of the rules, thinks they have a better look and better judgment than a trained official who's right on top of it. If the table were the best place to call the game from they'd put the officials there instead of having them on the court.

For table personnel to make comments on a call or lack thereof from their own myopic viewpoint is unprofessional.

Before you beat this poor boy to death, it appears to me that he has a pretty good grasp of the rules and is trying to learn. It never fails to amaze me that the officials on this forum never seem to admit that a lot of mistakes in judgment are made in every single game, and that the lower the level of game, the chances are that there are tons of blatant mistakes made. Evaluators, albeit they are trained, sit in the stands and make judgments on officials' performance. Those who have been critiqued for 30 minutes after a game by an evaluator and on tapes/videos by the supervisor understand that. Anyone can see and understand a bad call and it happens, and when you make the correct, but unpopular call, you should have a high enough self-esteem and thick enough skin to understand that if you are a good official, that does not happen often, and when it does, you should have a good laugh about it.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Before you beat this poor boy to death, it appears to me that he has a pretty good grasp of the rules and is trying to learn. It never fails to amaze me that the officials on this forum never seem to admit that a lot of mistakes in judgment are made in every single game, and that the lower the level of game, the chances are that there are tons of blatant mistakes made. Evaluators, albeit they are trained, sit in the stands and make judgments on officials' performance. Those who have been critiqued for 30 minutes after a game by an evaluator and on tapes/videos by the supervisor understand that. Anyone can see and understand a bad call and it happens, and when you make the correct, but unpopular call, you should have a high enough self-esteem and thick enough skin to understand that if you are a good official, that does not happen often, and when it does, you should have a good laugh about it.

I have never, ever had an evaluator or assignor criticize my judgement on a call. they too recognize that my angle may see something that they don't. What they are looking for are my mechanics and rules applications as well as my comportment on the floor. An evaluator that tells me the travel I missed in the 2q when I felt that there was no control, loses any chance of saying anything to me with credibility.