Can't believe it, but I heard it

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I may make comments to the other table personnel about my observations, but I don't question the officials about their calls directly.

I leave the direct questioning of the officials to the coaches.

Iow you'll crap on the officials but you don't have the 'nads to do so to their face.

Got it.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Iow you'll crap on the officials but you don't have the 'nads to do so to their face.

Got it.

I choose my words carefully when I do make comments. I may say something like "should of been a travel, but probably couldn't see it". Most of the time, it's about missed calls that couldn't be seen due to being out of position or too much traffic in the way to make the call.

I realize that officials are humans & can't call everything.

If I get the opportunity to ask about the call, after the fact, I'll ask about it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I....... I don't question the officials about their calls directly.

Originally Posted by chseagle

If I get the opportunity to ask about the call, after the fact, I'll ask about it.

So who is it that you ask?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

So who is it that you ask?

The officials, from that game, if I have a question about something I saw. I'll ask them about the play using case book-like scenarios.

When making the comments I mention also that the officials have final say.

In the gym where I'm normally doing scoreboard operations/timer, I'm not at court-level, but am above it. So there's a bit of an elevated view of plays.

Like I said earlier, I realize officials are human & calls can be missed.

There's a continual mention on here of having "definite knowledge", if an official can't see the play clearly due to varying reasons, then how can "definite knowledge" be used on a play if it cannot be seen.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by chseagle

There's a continual mention on here of having "definite knowledge", if an official can't see the play clearly due to varying reasons, then how can "definite knowledge" be used on a play if it cannot be seen.

Definite knowledge refers to knowing how much time is left on the clock. For example, if a coach requests a time out with two seconds left on the clock, but the scoreboard operator lags on stopping the clock, a good official should glance at the clock when he/she grants the timeout (or any official for that matter). If the official has definite knowledge of how much time is left on the clock, we can reset the clock and go from there. If know definite knowledge exists, then we can't put any time on the clock.

Check out 5-10

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I choose my words carefully when I do make comments. I may say something like "should of been a travel, but probably couldn't see it". Most of the time, it's about missed calls that couldn't be seen due to being out of position or too much traffic in the way to make the call.

You know, it never fails to amaze me how someone 50-60 or more feet from a play with a relatively crummy angle of view, and minimal knowledge and even less understanding of the rules, thinks they have a better look and better judgment than a trained official who's right on top of it. If the table were the best place to call the game from they'd put the officials there instead of having them on the court.

For table personnel to make comments on a call or lack thereof from their own myopic viewpoint is unprofessional.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

You know, it never fails to amaze me how someone 50-60 or more feet from a play with a relatively crummy angle of view, and minimal knowledge and even less understanding of the rules, thinks they have a better look and better judgment than a trained official who's right on top of it. If the table were the best place to call the game from they'd put the officials there instead of having them on the court.

For table personnel to make comments on a call or lack thereof from their own myopic viewpoint is unprofessional.

Sheez, Tim, don't hold back. Why not tell us how you really feel?

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

Sheez, Tim, don't hold back. Why not tell us how you really feel?

Because I might accidentally offend someone?

I'm all for subtlety when it's effective, but sometimes you just have to drag out the old cluex4......or maybe I'm just cranky because I didn't get my post game nap yesterday, since it took 3 hours to get home from my game at Wilsonville HS.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

You know, it never fails to amaze me how someone 50-60 or more feet from a play with a relatively crummy angle of view, and minimal knowledge and even less understanding of the rules, thinks they have a better look and better judgment than a trained official who's right on top of it. If the table were the best place to call the game from they'd put the officials there instead of having them on the court.

For table personnel to make comments on a call or lack thereof from their own myopic viewpoint is unprofessional.

Can't the same thing be said of coaches or regular spectators?

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Can't the same thing be said of coaches or regular spectators?

Here is the difference.....table personnel are part of the crew. All have the same crappy angle, but as Tim said, to do it as part of the table personnel is unprofessional.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by muxbule

Here is the difference.....table personnel are part of the crew. All have the same crappy angle, but as Tim said, to do it as part of the table personnel is unprofessional.

True about the angle.

When I do say anything, it's low key where only those at the table hear it, no one else. However, again, this is something I am working on NOT DOING.

Perhaps if the Table crew had an association like the officials, there'd be more professionalism.

Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by chseagle

this is something I am working on NOT DOING.
Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

I find most of your posts confusing and not worth reading like this one. This should not be something you are working on stopping...for God's sake just shut up at the table and if someone else says something sack up and tell them as part of the table personnel that is unprofessional and if they continue they will be removed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

True about the angle.

When I do say anything, it's low key where only those at the table hear it, no one else. However, again, this is something I am working on NOT DOING.

Perhaps if the Table crew had an association like the officials, there'd be more professionalism.

Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

Here's a piece of advice, take it or leave it.

Instead of saying "should have been a travel but...." Try assuming the ref saw something you didn't; like maybe the player didn't have control or something. If the officials are amenable to your questions afterwards, feel free to ask. If you're lucky, they'll remember the play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

Remember my post earlier about "discouraging others who do so"?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by chseagle

True about the angle.

When I do say anything, it's low key where only those at the table hear it, no one else. However, again, this is something I am working on NOT DOING.

Perhaps if the Table crew had an association like the officials, there'd be more professionalism.

Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

Professionalism starts with the individual. You don't need an association or a patch on your shirt to act professional. Just do it! If the others around you at the table choose not to, so be it. Let the AD handle that.
Make yourself a New Year's resolution...I'm am going to conduct myself in a professional manner at the table at all times. From the time I arrive at the gym until the time that I leave. I'm going to work to become the most professional timer that I can be.
Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut. When your at the table don't act/think like a fan (it's unprofessional)...act like a timer with a responsible and importantt job to do. When your at the table don't try to be a ref, (it's unprofessional) act like a timer with a responsible and important job to do. We all need/appreciate good timers..especially ones that act in both word and deed in professional manner.....before the game, during the game, during the intermissions, and after the game.