Can't believe it, but I heard it

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by chseagle

There's a continual mention on here of having "definite knowledge", if an official can't see the play clearly due to varying reasons, then how can "definite knowledge" be used on a play if it cannot be seen.

Definite knowledge refers to knowing how much time is left on the clock. For example, if a coach requests a time out with two seconds left on the clock, but the scoreboard operator lags on stopping the clock, a good official should glance at the clock when he/she grants the timeout (or any official for that matter). If the official has definite knowledge of how much time is left on the clock, we can reset the clock and go from there. If know definite knowledge exists, then we can't put any time on the clock.

Check out 5-10

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by muxbule

Here is the difference.....table personnel are part of the crew. All have the same crappy angle, but as Tim said, to do it as part of the table personnel is unprofessional.

True about the angle.

When I do say anything, it's low key where only those at the table hear it, no one else. However, again, this is something I am working on NOT DOING.

Perhaps if the Table crew had an association like the officials, there'd be more professionalism.

Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Can't the same thing be said of coaches or regular spectators?

Sure...it doesn't change the point though. If the best position to officiate was from the stands or from the benches, then we'd go ahead and place them there.

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by chseagle

this is something I am working on NOT DOING.
Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

I find most of your posts confusing and not worth reading like this one. This should not be something you are working on stopping...for God's sake just shut up at the table and if someone else says something sack up and tell them as part of the table personnel that is unprofessional and if they continue they will be removed.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by muxbule

I find most of your posts confusing and not worth reading like this one. This should not be something you are working on stopping...for God's sake just shut up at the table and if someone else says something sack up and tell them as part of the table personnel that is unprofessional and if they continue they will be removed.

In other words, I'm getting myself into the habit of not saying anything. I do slip up periodically, but I cuss myself out for doing it.

I've been mentioning to the others that do say something, leave it up to the officials as that's not our call.

Unfortunately, I don't have many options when it comes to the other table personnel as most of the time the person doing scorebook is the only person trained available.

[jkohls]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Sure...it doesn't change the point though. If the best position to officiate was from the stands or from the benches, then we'd go ahead and place them there.

I have long contended that the best place to call a game is the seat next to the HC. Back when I was an assistant coach, I never missed a call from that spot.


(In the last 8 years as an official, I believe I have become much less of an idiot, but the guys who now occupy that seat would argue that, I'm sure.)

[APG]

Originally Posted by jkohls

I have long contended that the best place to call a game is the seat next to the HC. Back when I was an assistant coach, I never missed a call from that spot.


(In the last 8 years as an official, I believe I have become much less of an idiot, but the guys who now occupy that seat would argue that, I'm sure.)

It's amazing how many perfect games have been called from the bench

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I choose my words carefully when I do make comments. I may say something like "should of been a travel, but probably couldn't see it". Most of the time, it's about missed calls that couldn't be seen due to being out of position or too much traffic in the way to make the call.

I realize that officials are humans & can't call everything.

If I get the opportunity to ask about the call, after the fact, I'll ask about it.

And if I ever hear anyone at the table say that, they're done for the game. Keep your comments to yourself. Use the voices in your head if you like, but not your out loud voice.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I choose my words carefully when I do make comments. I may say something like "should of been a travel, but probably couldn't see it". Most of the time, it's about missed calls that couldn't be seen due to being out of position or too much traffic in the way to make the call.

I realize that officials are humans & can't call everything.

If I get the opportunity to ask about the call, after the fact, I'll ask about it.

You couldn't see it because you're the one out of position on your fat azz behind the table.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

True about the angle.

When I do say anything, it's low key where only those at the table hear it, no one else. However, again, this is something I am working on NOT DOING.

Perhaps if the Table crew had an association like the officials, there'd be more professionalism.

Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

Here's a piece of advice, take it or leave it.

Instead of saying "should have been a travel but...." Try assuming the ref saw something you didn't; like maybe the player didn't have control or something. If the officials are amenable to your questions afterwards, feel free to ask. If you're lucky, they'll remember the play.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's a piece of advice, take it or leave it.

Instead of saying "should have been a travel but...." Try assuming the ref saw something you didn't; like maybe the player didn't have control or something. If the officials are amenable to your questions afterwards, feel free to ask. If you're lucky, they'll remember the play.

It's cause of what you're stating is one of the reasons why I am posting & asking some of the questions. I'm trying to get a better comprehension/understanding of what it takes to be an official, so that I can be a better part of the table crew & spectator (for times, I'm not doing anything).

Yes, the best position to call a foul/violation is from the floor right in front of the play.

It's also cause of your statement, that I'm training myself not to make statements at the table, or as a spectator.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Some of the times, I'm not saying anything but someone else does

Remember my post earlier about "discouraging others who do so"?

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

You know, it never fails to amaze me how someone 50-60 or more feet from a play with a relatively crummy angle of view, and minimal knowledge and even less understanding of the rules, thinks they have a better look and better judgment than a trained official who's right on top of it. If the table were the best place to call the game from they'd put the officials there instead of having them on the court.

For table personnel to make comments on a call or lack thereof from their own myopic viewpoint is unprofessional.

Before you beat this poor boy to death, it appears to me that he has a pretty good grasp of the rules and is trying to learn. It never fails to amaze me that the officials on this forum never seem to admit that a lot of mistakes in judgment are made in every single game, and that the lower the level of game, the chances are that there are tons of blatant mistakes made. Evaluators, albeit they are trained, sit in the stands and make judgments on officials' performance. Those who have been critiqued for 30 minutes after a game by an evaluator and on tapes/videos by the supervisor understand that. Anyone can see and understand a bad call and it happens, and when you make the correct, but unpopular call, you should have a high enough self-esteem and thick enough skin to understand that if you are a good official, that does not happen often, and when it does, you should have a good laugh about it.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Before you beat this poor boy to death, it appears to me that he has a pretty good grasp of the rules and is trying to learn. It never fails to amaze me that the officials on this forum never seem to admit that a lot of mistakes in judgment are made in every single game, and that the lower the level of game, the chances are that there are tons of blatant mistakes made. Evaluators, albeit they are trained, sit in the stands and make judgments on officials' performance. Those who have been critiqued for 30 minutes after a game by an evaluator and on tapes/videos by the supervisor understand that. Anyone can see and understand a bad call and it happens, and when you make the correct, but unpopular call, you should have a high enough self-esteem and thick enough skin to understand that if you are a good official, that does not happen often, and when it does, you should have a good laugh about it.

I have never, ever had an evaluator or assignor criticize my judgement on a call. they too recognize that my angle may see something that they don't. What they are looking for are my mechanics and rules applications as well as my comportment on the floor. An evaluator that tells me the travel I missed in the 2q when I felt that there was no control, loses any chance of saying anything to me with credibility.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I have never, ever had an evaluator or assignor criticize my judgement on a call. they too recognize that my angle may see something that they don't. What they are looking for are my mechanics and rules applications as well as my comportment on the floor. An evaluator that tells me the travel I missed in the 2q when I felt that there was no control, loses any chance of saying anything to me with credibility.

The evaluations I refer to are those where every whistle is given a plus, zero, or minus, and non-calls that should have had whistles are noted. Combined with films, that is how you improve judgment. No credibility? You won;t be getting called to return next year. Like I said, you have to have a thick skin and true confidence.