Flagrant T or not?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Reaches.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

"Reaches?"

Berkut: I agree with BktBallRef. If you are an official, posting on this Forum, please speak only in "Officialese". That' the only way we will know, for sure, that you're a real official, not an impostor. If we all don't speak "Officialese", then the only way to tell us apart from coaches, fanboys, players, etc. will be for the Official Forum to issue us some type of identification badge, or something? Official Forum badges? Cool. When asked, we could just whip it out (no comments from Mark Padgett please.).

YouTube - Classic Movie Line #34

YouTube - We don't need no stinking badges!

[BillyMac]

C'mon guys. A coach, on the court, within hearing distance of players, and fans, accuses an official of cheating, and some of you argue that a flagrant foul is not warranted, by rule? You've got to be kidding me? Now I can certainly understand an argument regarding whether, or not, a flagrant foul is warranted in this situation, we all have different length fuses, but to argue that it's not warranted, by rule, is ridiculous. Do any of you really believe that the NFHS would not consider a coach publicly accusing an official of cheating, during the game, of being a flagrant act?

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Berkut: I agree with BktBallRef. If you are an official, posting on this Forum, please speak only in "Officialese".

Fair enough.

[Adam]

Whenever I hear a coach ask, "wasn't he reaching" or "wasn't that a reach", I know it's only a matter of time before he starts asking for an "over the back" call. Reaching is not a foul, and 99% of the time when they reach there's no contact. And half of that remaining 1%, there's no advantage.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Reaching is not a foul, and 99% of the time when they reach there's no contact.

I think that estimate is high. The reach I see so often, at all levels, is the defender making a steal attempt. Defender reaches across the body of the dribbler. Often the defender gets only ball with the hand, but makes considerable contact with his arm on the hip/leg/torso of the offensive player. Depending on your angle, the contact may be very difficult to see, let alone measure.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Reaching is not a foul, and 99% of the time when they reach there's no contact. And half of that remaining 1%, there's no advantage.

So, according to my trusty slide rule, 99.5% of the time it isn't a foul. Wow. That's a higher percentage than Ivory Soap (99 44/100%)

[Berkut]

I think you all know what I meant, I am talking about "reaching" fouls - when the defender is going for a steal, and is in fact creating contact with the dribbler.

And yes, reaching is not a foul. Reaching and making contact might be though...

And what I am talking about is reaching, and generally making a lot of contact, maybe with the offensive players face, hammering the ball loose, and then looking stunned, just STUNNED! that there is a whistle. Because we were, you know, cheating the kids and all.

I just love the tender and noble concern coaches have for their kids. They don't really care about winning or losing, they just want the kids to not be cheated by those dastardly officials!

[Berkut]

Note: When I say "coaches" I am referring only to particular coaches, not coaches in general. The 80-20 rule applies, of course, and most coaches actually do, I think, really care about their kids more than they do about us, or how we might be cheating them.

So forgive any unintentional over-generalization.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Berkut

I think you all know what I meant, I am talking about "reaching" fouls.

How many times do I have to say it. If you're an official, please post in "Officialese", always. That's the only way that we can tell, for sure, that you're not one of, "Them".

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How many times do I have to say it. If you're an official, please post in "Officialese", always. That's the only way that we can tell, for sure, that you're not one of, "Them".

But how can you know that I am not just one of "Them" with a polished vocabulary???

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Whenever I hear a coach ask, "wasn't he reaching" or "wasn't that a reach", I know it's only a matter of time before he starts asking for an "over the back" call. Reaching is not a foul, and 99% of the time when they reach there's no contact. And half of that remaining 1%, there's no advantage.

I was doing some games with a first year official who coached for eight years. In fact, they were his first games.

He kept calling "over the back" on rebounding fouls. After the first, I explained that the call does not exist, and why it is important to avoid using the term.

He only did it three more times in the next two games though, although he looked rather chagrined each time he realized he was doing it again...:P