Preferences for scoreboard/timer & scorebook operations

[chseagle]

What is the preference of everyone when it comes to who's doing scoreboard/timer & official scorebook at games?

Do you prefer someone who is keeping up with the rules/regulations? Or someone that's going off of regulations that's 5-10 years old?

Should it be mandatory that anyone doing scoreboard/timing and scorebook have to go through the training & testing that the floor officials go through?

I am asking this because I have been doing scoreboard/timing for my alma mater for the past 4 years, & every year I go to my state association's website & go through the online rules clinic that's posted for the public to view. For my alma mater, I do scoreboard/timing for JV & C-Squad games, I have also done Girls' Varsity Shot Clock for a couple of games.

[chseagle]

I am curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on this, concerning the fact that there is a difference in first-year scoreboard/timer & scorebook, & those that have been doing it for years on end.

How easy is it, as a floor official, to keep up on the new POE & rules/regulations when they change from one year to another?

[Ignats75]

Not something I even worry about because I have no control over it. The home team picks who does it. If they look like a deer in the headlights, I might try to help them a little with some advice. other than that, the only think I do is ask them if they know when to blow the warning horn. If they give me a strong and correct answer, we're good to go.

[Nevadaref]

It is always better to work with an experienced and competent table crew.

That said, this is not the choice of the officials, and we have to take whomever the school provides and do the best that we can.

I have seen several games get screwed up in the past couple of seasons because of the table crew not handling their duties properly.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It is always better to work with an experienced and competent table crew.

That said, this is not the choice of the officials, and we have to take whomever the school provides and do the best that we can.

I have seen several games get screwed up in the past couple of seasons because of the table crew not handling their duties properly.

As an example, last year I was doing shot clock for Girls' Varsity, whenever a foul was being called the calling official was looking at me & reporting the information at me, instead of to the Scoreboard/Timer & Scorebook.

I had worked with that official several times before when I was JV & C-Squad Scoreboard/Timer, and the official was so used to my method of operations. The person that does the Varsity Scoreboard/Timer has been doing it for at least 10 years, yet I've only done scoreboard/timer for 4-5 years. You'd think the more senior person would have more respect/appreciation from the officials, yet whenever I am at the table I get better responses than others.

With this person that's got the more experience, I've seen several screw ups, yet no one seems to want to change things.

[tadams]

Originally Posted by chseagle

As an example, last year I was doing shot clock for Girls' Varsity, whenever a foul was being called the calling official was looking at me & reporting the information at me, instead of to the Scoreboard/Timer & Scorebook.

I had worked with that official several times before when I was JV & C-Squad Scoreboard/Timer, and the official was so used to my method of operations. The person that does the Varsity Scoreboard/Timer has been doing it for at least 10 years, yet I've only done scoreboard/timer for 4-5 years. You'd think the more senior person would have more respect/appreciation from the officials, yet whenever I am at the table I get better responses than others.

With this person that's got the more experience, I've seen several screw ups, yet no one seems to want to change things.

you sound a little jaded... just because the JV coach goes undefeated for 3 straight years doen't mean he/she gets the varsity job. That is just basketball politics... you refs never have to deal with politics I am sure.

(sorry for the off topic remarks)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

As an example, last year I was doing shot clock for Girls' Varsity, whenever a foul was being called the calling official was looking at me & reporting the information at me, instead of to the Scoreboard/Timer & Scorebook.

I had worked with that official several times before when I was JV & C-Squad Scoreboard/Timer, and the official was so used to my method of operations. The person that does the Varsity Scoreboard/Timer has been doing it for at least 10 years, yet I've only done scoreboard/timer for 4-5 years. You'd think the more senior person would have more respect/appreciation from the officials, yet whenever I am at the table I get better responses than others.

I don't think any of that has anything to do with it. Many times, if I'm familiar with a face at the table, I'm going to be drawn more toward that face. For example, the timer this past Friday night has been at the table for years. I did not know either scorer. So naturally, my gaze would catch the timer most times. But then I would pick up the scorer.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It is always better to work with an experienced and competent table crew.

What?!? Rules reference, please!

You're really stirring the pot these days, Nevada.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I have seen several games get screwed up in the past couple of seasons because of the table crew not handling their duties properly.

I'll take an experienced, conscientious, non-distracted crew anytime.

I worked as the "volunteer" clock operator for a HS (non-V game) last yr. Everything was fine until the refs came to the table at half-time to verify all was well. Visitor's book and scoreboard reflected one score (V leading by two), Home book reflected another (tie score). (NOTE - I was the only person at the table above the age of 18. Well above 18. As has been pointed out, this can be a problem).

Well, we rectified the situation as by rule as the Books could not agree where the issue was.

The V Coach/team was none too happy when they came back out onto the floor for the second half.....

[Back In The Saddle]

As far as keeping up on rules and such, I think the practical ideal is somewhere in between. Obviously grabbing a random kid from the stands to run the book/clock is problematic (as has been proven repeatedly at some schools I work). But does the table crew really need to know the ideal size for a HS basketball court, the maximum allowable side inset width for a legal jersey, or whether a ball handler can legally pivot if he/she jumps off one foot and lands on two? Not really. But it is very helpful to have a table crew that knows all the rules about substitution, who understand that running score is more important that individual point totals, who understands how direct and indirect technicals work and are recorded, even what to do when a player scores a the other team's basket. The scorekeeper who knows all that is the scorekeeper I want to work with.

[Scratch85]

I prefer to work with scorers and timers who are female and attractive.

However, I mostly prefer to work with scorers and timers who are there. It is frustrating to be at the table before the game, doing your admin chores, and the timer or scorer is off eating a hotdog and chatting with friends.

In my area, these are paid positions (per game) for all Varsity contests. The same people usually do them for every home game. Consequently, they are usually experienced. That doesn't mean they know everything but it does mean that a quick chat and intro before the game typically makes for a smooth game.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I prefer to work with scorers and timers who are female and attractive.

Or did you really mean: I prefer to score with timers who are female and attractive.

[Adam]

I think you asked a loaded question:

Originally Posted by chseagle

Do you prefer someone who is keeping up with the rules/regulations? Or someone that's going off of regulations that's 5-10 years old?

The answer to this question is obvious, but it also presents a false dichotomy. Those aren't the only options.

Originally Posted by chseagle

Should it be mandatory that anyone doing scoreboard/timing and scorebook have to go through the training & testing that the floor officials go through?

No, unless you're going to pay them the same. You'll never get volunteers, however, with that requirement. And while I think a good table is a wonderful thing to have, I'd rather the schools pay for a third official than pay my rate for the table personnel.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think you asked a loaded question:

The answer to this question is obvious, but it also presents a false dichotomy. Those aren't the only options.


No, unless you're going to pay them the same. You'll never get volunteers, however, with that requirement. And while I think a good table is a wonderful thing to have, I'd rather the schools pay for a third official than pay my rate for the table personnel.

Snaqwells, in other wording, I am asking would you rather have table personnel that know what they're doing, compared to someone that's having to learn while doing with it being their 1st time. I can get what you're saying about the pay. If I remember right, the person at my alma mater that does the Varsity games is getting paid $10 a game.

I asked about a person being current regulations, compared to someone who's going off of regulations that are 5-10 years old, because basically that's the circumstance that's going on with the person doing the scoreboard/timing for Varsity at my alma mater. She does a good job with continual communication between herself & the scorebooks, but she is buzzing at the wrong time for time-outs, & she doesn't hit the 1-minute warning buzzer for intermissions. Also she seems to know how to do shoit clock although I've never seen her do shot clock.

When I'm doing scoreboard/timer & shot clock, I have print outs with me that show the rules/regulations for shot clock, timer, & scorebook. This way if any questions are asked about the procedure I have proof. So yes I have the experience, but I also keep with me the written proof in case I happen to have questions

Considering I normally only do JV & C-Squad games, most of the time the person doing scorebook is a student with their friends/buddies sitting there next to them distracting them. (The home team has almost gotten technicals cause of it). I feel like others that the person doing scorebook should be an adult, not a student.

[Ed Maeder]

We are very fortunate in our area. The officials association is also responsible for assigning the scorer and timers. They have to go through training just as officials do. We have our veteran scorers and timers train and then they go and practice at scrimmages. When they finally do high school games if they are new they are assigned with a veteran. They are paid very well and for the most part do a great job. Our regional and state games are also chosen from these scorers and timers with others from different areas.