Pass to self

[kzooref]

I have used my dribble and make a pass to my team mate who goes back door and does not see the pass coming. I run over and pick up the pass. Is this a travel?

What if I see him going backdoor and try to hold up on the pass but the ball slips. Is this considered a fumble and therefore no traveling?

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by kzooref

I have used my dribble and make a pass to my team mate who goes back door and does not see the pass coming. I run over and pick up the pass. Is this a travel?

What if I see him going backdoor and try to hold up on the pass but the ball slips. Is this considered a fumble and therefore no traveling?

If the passed ball touches the floor and you touch the ball before it touches or is touched by another player, it is an illegal dribble. If the ball does not touch the floor and you touch the ball before it touches or is touched by another player, it is a travel.

A fumble is defined in 4-21. If you deem the action to be a fumble, then it can legally be recovered. In the second part of your OP, I would judge that to be a fumble

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

If the passed ball touches the floor and you touch the ball before it touches or is touched by another player, it is an illegal dribble. If the ball does not touch the floor and you touch the ball before it touches or is touched by another player, it is a travel.

A fumble is defined in 4-21. If you deem the action to be a fumble, then it can legally be recovered. In the second part of your OP, I would judge that to be a fumble

I have some questions for you based upon your response.

What if A1 is dribbling at the top of the FT semi-circle and in mid-dribble pushes a bounce pass to towards his teammate with only one hand? Did A1 end his dribble? Can he run over and be the first to touch the ball?

What if A1 is holding the ball and throws a bounce pass towards his teammate who doesn't see it. Can he run over and be the first to touch the ball?

Do you believe that the Case Book is correct or that the Rules Book takes precedence for illegal dribble or traveling?

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I have some questions for you based upon your response.

What if A1 is dribbling at the top of the FT semi-circle and in mid-dribble pushes a bounce pass to towards his teammate with only one hand? Did A1 end his dribble? Can he run over and be the first to touch the ball?

What if A1 is holding the ball and throws a bounce pass towards his teammate who doesn't see it. Can he run over and be the first to touch the ball?

Do you believe that the Case Book is correct or that the Rules Book takes precedence for illegal dribble or traveling?

If he touches with one hand, and continues the dribble, no problem. If he picks it up with two, no problem, but he cannot dribble. Dribbled is now ended.

[Johnny Ringo]

Nevadaref: I know you know the answers. Rather than pose the question - please answer. This will get confusing real quick. It may have already gotten confusing to some.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

This will get confusing real quick. It may have already gotten confusing to some.

I would like to order a steam mop. I've seen your infomercials and think that it would make cleaning my kitchen floor a lot easier. However, I can't find the item number, nor can I find shipping information, on your website. I need your assistance.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

If the passed ball touches the floor and you touch the ball before it touches or is touched by another player, it is an illegal dribble. If the ball does not touch the floor and you touch the ball before it touches or is touched by another player, it is a travel.

You were kind enough to provide a rules reference for the definition of fumble. Could you perchance do the same for the above pontification?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by justacoach

You were kind enough to provide a rules reference for the definition of fumble. Could you perchance do the same for the above pontification?

Illegal dribble: 9-5
Travel: 4-44

[dbking]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Illegal dribble: 9-5
Travel: 4-44

Wrong, it is not an illegal dribble. The ball is loose on the court. All ten players may legally obtain possession of the ball. A dribble is defined very clearly in the book. This is not a dribble therefore, it can not be an illegal dribble. Perfectly legal play that everyone in stands will be crying for something when you actually should have nothing. Play on! There are restrictions on the the player on what he can / can not do with the ball once he has regained possession.

Wrong, it is not a travel. You can not travel when you do not have possession of the ball. This is a fumble and represents a loose ball. All ten players may legally obtain possession of the ball. Play on. Again, restrictions are on this player once he regains possession of ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dbking

Wrong, it is not an illegal dribble. The ball is loose on the court. All ten players may legally obtain possession of the ball. A dribble is defined very clearly in the book. This is not a dribble therefore, it can not be an illegal dribble. Perfectly legal play that everyone in stands will be crying for something when you actually should have nothing. Play on! There are restrictions on the the player on what he can / can not do with the ball once he has regained possession.

Wrong, it's an illegal dribble. See case play 4.15.4C. It doesn't matter whether A1 "intended" to throw a pass or not.

Originally Posted by dbking

Wrong, it is not a travel. You can not travel when you do not have possession of the ball. This is a fumble and represents a loose ball. All ten players may legally obtain possession of the ball. Play on. Again, restrictions are on this player once he regains possession of ball.

Wrong, it's a travel. Case play 4.44.3D(b).

All of this assumes, of course, that the ball was "passed" and not fumbled.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by dbking

Wrong, it is not an illegal dribble. The ball is loose on the court. All ten players may legally obtain possession of the ball. A dribble is defined very clearly in the book. This is not a dribble therefore, it can not be an illegal dribble. Perfectly legal play that everyone in stands will be crying for something when you actually should have nothing. Play on! There are restrictions on the the player on what he can / can not do with the ball once he has regained possession.

Did you even read 9-5 before posting this? Either Scratch did or he knows it pretty darn well.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dbking

Wrong, it is not an illegal dribble. The ball is loose on the court. All ten players may legally obtain possession of the ball. A dribble is defined very clearly in the book. This is not a dribble therefore, it can not be an illegal dribble. Perfectly legal play that everyone in stands will be crying for something when you actually should have nothing. Play on! There are restrictions on the the player on what he can / can not do with the ball once he has regained possession.

Wrong, it is not a travel. You can not travel when you do not have possession of the ball. This is a fumble and represents a loose ball. All ten players may legally obtain possession of the ball. Play on. Again, restrictions are on this player once he regains possession of ball.

There's a specific case play where A1, having used his/her dribble, passes the ball toward A2. A2 is not looking and runs away and A1 recovers the ball after it bounces.

The ruling has gone back and forth as to whether it's an illegal dribble or a travel, but it's clear that it's a violation.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by kzooref

I have used my dribble and make a pass to my team mate who goes back door and does not see the pass coming. I run over and pick up the pass. Is this a travel?

What if I see him going backdoor and try to hold up on the pass but the ball slips. Is this considered a fumble and therefore no traveling?

You have to decide. Did he pass it or fumble it?

Unfortunately, some posters above are confused. A fumble is not a dribble and a dribble is not a fumble.

If you judge it to be a fumble, then the player can retrieve it.

If you judge that it was a pass, then the passer cannot touch the ball before it touches another player. If he does, it's an illegal dribble.

BTW, there's no such thing as a "pass to self." A pass is ALWAYS to another player.

[Back In The Saddle]

Okay, let me see if I understand this correctly.

If, as in the OP, the ball handler A1 has used his/her dribble...

If A1 fumbles the ball, he/she may take any number of steps and legally recover the ball (NFHS 4-21, 4.15.4D (d), NCAA 4-31.2). But unless the fumble touches another player before A1 recovers it, A1 may not dribble again legally. (NFHS 9-5-3, NCAA 9-7.1c)

If A1 attempts a bounce pass, which for whatever reason no teammate is there to receive, and A1 is the first to touch the ball after it has touched the floor, A1 has committed an illegal dribble/double dribble. (NFHS 9-5, NCAA 9-7.1, NCAA AR 88)

If A1 attempts a non-bounce pass, which for whatever reason no teammate is there to receive, and A1 moves beyond the prescribed pivot foot limits and catches the ball before it touches the ground, A1 has traveled. (NFHS 4-44, 4.44.3D (d), NCAA 4-70)

However, if A1 has not used his/her dribble...

If A1 fumbles the ball, he/she may recover the ball and legally begin a dribble. (The fumble-dribble-fumble maxim often quoted here)

If A1 attempts a bounce pass, which for whatever reason no teammate is there to receive, and A1 is the first to touch the ball after it has touched the floor, A1 has begun a dribble and may legally continue that dribble. If A1 recovers the ball in a way that ends the dribble, A1 may not legally dribble again.

If A1 attempts a non-bounce pass, which for whatever reason no teammate is there to receive, and A1 moves beyond the prescribed pivot foot limits and catches the ball before it touches the ground, A1 has still traveled. Having dribbled, or not dribbled, prior to this action is irrelevant.

Are any of those statements incorrect?