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No, you've got yourself a conference where one of you two is going to be a grown up, defer the call, and get a single call because it can't really be both a block and a charge. You are absolutely NOT going to both insist your call is right and not back down. If a crew cant get together and get this right, that is just lame.
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In NCAA women's you are correct. We get together and go with the primary officials call. In NFHS and NCAA men's it has to be a double foul. NFHS case 4.19.8 Situation C |
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I'm sure at our "get together" either I or my partner will learn that the other had the better look. A preliminary signal is no more a binding irreversible ruling than an out of bounds call.
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Ummm...then you will be kicking a rule.
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If preliminary signals now are binding and non-reversible, what do you do with the jump/foul double whistle or the out of bounds call that your partner comes over and tells you there was a tip. I guess we shoot the free throw for the foul then go to the AP arrow for the jump? Uh, no. Or we tell the coach, "sorry coach, I know my partner saw the tip, but I pointed to blue and that signal is irreversible." No. This idea of an irreversible preliminary signal is absurd. |
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I can't explain it.
BUT I can say that it does not mandate that preliminary signals are irreversible. I think the only way to understand 4.19.8(C) is to think of the situation where both officials steadfastly insist their call is correct and there is no other way to resolve it. Otherwise it doesnt make sense. What I refuse to do is read into an already whacky case play an even whackier new RULE: that preliminary signals now are mandatory and unchangable and there cannot be any deferring. I dont think 4.19.8(C) dictates that. |
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Even the official's manual calls the signal on the floor a "preliminary signal."
2.4.2(B)(4): "lower the foul signal [fist] and indicate the nature of the foul by giving a preliminary signal." THEN 2.4.2(C)(2): "If the situation necesitates a discussion with the other officials, have the discussion before reporting to the table so that the correct call and information is conveyed to the table." That right there says after the preliminary signal the officials can get together and discuss the call to make sure the CORRECT CALL is made. |
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Of course, 2.4.8 which talks about double whistles also says the officials should get together to "determine the correct call" and that the decision on the final call should be left to the primary area official.
So I just dont see any rule support for this idea that preliminary signals are irrevocable and unchangable. In fact, the manuals are to teh contrary--officials should get together and make changes as needed to make sure the call reported to the table is correct. |
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This is the only case where the prelims become binding, and the reasoning is simple even if it is "suspect."
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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Like it or not, NCAA-M and NFHS say that once the officials signal with opposite calls in a block/charge, it is too late for either to change...with an exception for being in the restricted area.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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If that's true, then I am wrong. I can live with that. I will continue to pregame holding signals to stay out of the blarge nightmare. Because even if I am right, having two officials with two different calls and signals is a pregameable and avoidable situation.
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I will concede, of course, that I have no freaking clue how 4.19.8(C) can be possible with just A1 and B1. I could see, perhaps, A1 charges into B1, while at the exact same time secondary defender B2 blocks A1.
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