Breaking the plane by defense during throw in

[Damian]

NFHS Rules.
Rule 7 Section 6 Art 4 states that no opponent can cross the throw in boundry plane until the ball is released. At a clinic they are teaching that if a defender reaches thru plane after release and touches the ball its a technical foul.
Situation: A1 is the thrower on his baseline halfway between lane and 3 pt circle. A2 drives towards lane from opposite corner. B2 defending from inside lane bats ball out of bounds on pass from A1 to A2. To touch ball he reaches through boundry plane.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Damian

NFHS Rules.
Rule 7 Section 6 Art 4 states that no opponent can cross the throw in boundry plane until the ball is released. At a clinic they are teaching that if a defender reaches thru plane after release and touches the ball its a technical foul.
Situation: A1 is the thrower on his baseline halfway between lane and 3 pt circle. A2 drives towards lane from opposite corner. B2 defending from inside lane bats ball out of bounds on pass from A1 to A2. To touch ball he reaches through boundry plane.

I would speculate that they are talking about Rule 9-3-10 Penalties, which defines what action during the throw-in is a technical foul. However based on the play you stated, the throw-in was released on a pass towards a player in bounds, therefore it should be a legal block attempt. Had the contact on the ball been made while A1 was throwing the ball to A2 who is also out of bounds, after a made basket per 7-5-7, then the contact on the ball would be a technical foul. see caseplay 10.3.10 Sit B

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by Damian

Situation: A1 is the thrower on his baseline halfway between lane and 3 pt circle. A2 drives towards lane from opposite corner. B2 defending from inside lane bats ball out of bounds on pass from A1 to A2. To touch ball he reaches through boundry plane.

Legal play. Ball is awarded to A for a spot throw in at the nearest spot where the ball went out of bounds.

[Camron Rust]

NFHS: At one time, just a few years ago, the wording in the rulebook actually said it was a technical foul. The rule use to say that a player couldn't reach across the throwin plane and touch the ball. The penalty was a T for reaching through the throwin plane and touching the ball....with no other qualification. It also said those restrictions ended when the ball crossed the throwin plane.

A few years ago, an "editorial clarification" was made to add that it had to be in the hands of the thrower for the T.

The problem with that is the the offensive team is not permitted to reach across the line to catch the pass (or even touch the ball)...they must wait for it to cross the line. Yet, the defense can reach across the line and touch the ball. Really seems inconsistent to allow one team to make a play in a space where the other team is prohibited.

NCAA: The defense is not permitted to reach through the line until the ball crosses the line....penalty...1st offense is a violation and delay-of-game. Repeated violations are a T.

[BillyMac]

A player inbounding the ball may step on, but not over the line. During a designated spot throwin, the player inbounding the ball must keep one foot on or over the three-foot wide designated spot. An inbounding player is allowed to jump or move one or both feet. A player inbounding the ball may move backward as far as the five-second time limit or space allows. If player moves outside the three-foot wide designated spot it is a violation, not travelling. In gymnasiums with limited space outside the sidelines and endlines, a defensive player may be asked to step back no more than three feet. A player inbounding the ball may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throwin. After a goal, or awarded goal, the team not credited with the score shall make the throw-in from any point outside the end line. A team retains this “run the endline” privilege if a timeout is called during the dead ball period after the goal. Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in or may pass the ball along the end line to a teammate outside the boundary line.

The defender may not break the imaginary plane during a throwin until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane during a throwin before the ball has been released on a throw-in pass, the defender’s team will receive a team warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the imaginary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team warning will be recorded. If the defender fouls the inbounding player after breaking the imaginary plane, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team warning will be recorded.

The inbounding player does not have a plane restriction, but has five seconds to release the ball and it must come directly onto the court. The ball can always be passed into the backcourt during a throwin. This situation is not a backcourt violation.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

NCAA: The defense is not permitted to reach through the line until the ball crosses the line....penalty...1st offense is a violation and delay-of-game. Repeated violations are a T.

My thought was that the clinicians in the OP might be importing the NCAA rule to HS ball.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by mbyron

My thought was that the clinicians in the OP might be importing the NCAA rule to HS ball.

Good point guys... many of our clinicians in the Houston area are college officials. I would suggest getting clarification on their interpretation of the play. This would be a good play to share with the class, along with Billy Mac's other misunderstood rules regarding throw-ins.

[Coach Bill]

My thought is that a technical should never be called on the defense for reaching across the plane and touching the ball in the player's hands.

As soon as the plane is crossed, the ref should blow their whistle stopping the play and issue the warning (for first offense). You gotta be real quick, though!

You ARE joking right?

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

My thought is that a technical should never be called on the defense for reaching across the plane and touching the ball in the player's hands.

As soon as the plane is crossed, the ref should blow their whistle stopping the play and issue the warning (for first offense). You gotta be real quick, though!

This has been discussed extensively on the board. This is not how the rule is written, and not how it's enforced. If you reach over and contact the ball, it's a technical.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

My thought is that a technical should never be called on the defense for reaching across the plane and touching the ball in the player's hands.

As soon as the plane is crossed, the ref should blow their whistle stopping the play and issue the warning (for first offense). You gotta be real quick, though!

Only for 8U.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

You ARE joking right?

Yes, I am. But, theoretically, if it was a real slow reach in and a real fast whistle, you could catch it before it happens.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Yes, I am. But, theoretically, if it was a real slow reach in and a real fast whistle, you could catch it before it happens.

You could, but you'd be wrong to do so. There's a specific case play or interp that covers this -- get the "end action" not the "earlier violation."

[BillyMac]

Let's say we have a "run the endline" throwin. Team A has the ball.

1) Throwin player A1 attempts a throwin pass across the lane, not quite parallel to the endline, to teammate A2, who in just barely inbounds. After A1 releases the ball on the throwin, defensive player B3 crosses the plane of the endline, without stepping out of bounds, and steals the throwin pass. What do you have?

2) During a "trick" play, throwin player A1 attempts a pass across the lane, to teammate A2, who is also out of bounds. After A1 releases the ball on the "trick" play pass, defensive player B3 crosses the plane of the endline, without stepping out of bounds, and steals the "trick" play pass. What do you have?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Let's say we have a "run the endline" throwin. Team A has the ball.

1) Throwin player A1 attempts a throwin pass across the lane, not quite parallel to the endline, to teammate A2, who in just barely inbounds. After A1 releases the ball on the throwin, defensive player B3 crosses the plane of the endline, without stepping out of bounds, and steals the throwin pass. What do you have?

2) During a "trick" play, throwin player A1 attempts a pass across the lane, to teammate A2, who is also out of bounds. After A1 releases the ball on the "trick" play pass, defensive player B3 crosses the plane of the endline, without stepping out of bounds, and steals the "trick" play pass. What do you have?

This is where the NFHS rules break down. We have to determine if A1 intended to make a throwin or to make a pass to a teammate who was OOB or was expected to be OOB, perhaps by the time the ball got there. In one case, this would be a T on B3 and legal in the other case.

In the NCAA, it is still not perfect, but it is closer...it would be a T or a violation depending on the official's judgment but it would never be a legal play until the ball crosses the line.

In the NCAA rules, there is no dilemma for the defender...whether it is legal to go for the ball or not...whether the official's judgment will agree with theirs or not...they simply can't touch the ball until it crosses the line.