Putting the ball in play...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by wanja

I'd like to see that NFHS case. Can you provide a reference?

BillyMac just posted it above.

[wanja]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

BillyMac just posted it above.

In the cited free throw case there was no violation in (A) when control was not established. However in (B) control was established and there was a violation. With regard to the original throw in situations, in both A and B the thrower had control, failed to directly pass the ball onto the court and thus violated in both cases

[Nevadaref]

The NFHS FT ruling in part (b) is new as of last season. Prior to that the official was instructed to give it back to him and allow him to attempt the FT.

Why do you state that the thrower has failed to pass the ball directly into the court in both cases? The ball only bounces out of bounds in one of the two cases. In the other case the ball goes directly from the player into the court. That's legal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The ball only bounces out of bounds in one of the two cases. In the other case the ball goes directly from the player into the court. That's legal.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but be careful with your reasoning. The ball actually bounces out of bounds in both cases:

NFHS- Rule 7
SECTION 1 OUT-OF-BOUNDS — PLAYER, BALL
ART. 1 . . . A player is out of bounds when he/she touches the floor, or any
object other than a player/person, on or outside a boundary. For location of a
player in the air, see 4-35.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds:
a. When it touches or is touched by:
1. A player who is out of bounds.
2. Any other person, the floor, or any object on or outside a boundary.
3. The supports or back of the backboard.
4. The ceiling, overhead equipment or supports.
b. When it passes over a rectangular backboard.

I guess the crux of this situation is, what does directly onto the court really mean? It is legal for the throwin player to "dribble" the ball before a throwin. However, it is illegal for a throwin player to throwin a long throwin bounce pass that hits out of bounds, outside the designated spot, before the throwin ends. Again, it comes down to what does directly onto the court mean?

NFHS 9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

[wanja]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why do you state that the thrower has failed to pass the ball directly into the court in both cases? The ball only bounces out of bounds in one of the two cases. In the other case the ball goes directly from the player into the court. That's legal.

Your statement does not accurately reflect the original post (see below). In both cases the ball enters the court. In both cases, after the ball last leaves the thrower's hands, the ball hits the thrower's foot before it has inbounds status.

Originally Posted by MatthewPV

Player A has the ball ready to throw it in. (A) Player A bounces the ball, but hits his foot and on the fly crossed over the endline and lands inbounds or (B) Player A bounces the ball, but hits his foot and bounces twice before crossing the endline.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by wanja

Your statement does not accurately reflect the original post (see below). In both cases the ball enters the court. In both cases, after the ball last leaves the thrower's hands, the ball hits the thrower's foot before it has inbounds status.

I am fully aware that the ball strikes the thrower's foot before heading inbounds. It could also strike his knee or some other body part. It doesn't matter. As long as it goes directly from the player to the inbounds area of the court, there is nothing wrong. I took that into account in making my statement.

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the shoulder and rebounds into the inbounds area of the court without touching anywhere else? Is that a violation?

[wanja]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the shoulder and rebounds into the inbounds area of the court without touching anywhere else? Is that a violation?

Yes. As an earlier poster noted it comes down to what is the definition of a pass directly onto the court. A ball that leaves a throwers hands and does not directly enter the court inbounds (e.g. hits a foot or shoulder out of bounds) is not a pass directly onto the court. We apparently disagree on this point. It woud be useful to get NFHS clarification of this definition via a case or other means.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by wanja

It would be useful to get NFHS clarification of this definition via a case or other means.

Agree. I've been pondering this situation for several days, and have thoroughly searched the rulebook, casebook, and annual interpretations, and I can't find a definitive answer for this (throwin ball accidentally hits foot and caroms inbounds).

It comes down to this. Either a throwin ball that accidentally goes from the throwerin's hands to his foot and then inbounds is directly thrown inbounds, and is thus legal, or it's indirectly thrown inbounds, since it didn't go directly from hands to inbounds, and is thus, illegal, and is a violation.

And, I don't believe that this is a one in a million situation that isn't worth discussing. I think that this is a situation that really could happen.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the shoulder and rebounds into the inbounds area of the court without touching anywhere else? Is that a violation?

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the head, and because of the amount of hair gel A2 is wearing, sticks to his head? I guess you would just continue your five second count.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the head, and because of the amount of hair gel A2 is wearing, sticks to his head? I guess you would just continue your five second count.