Putting the ball in play...

Originally Posted by Lotto

Here's the NCAA case:

A.R. 175. A1, on a throw-in from a designated spot, fumbles. A1 leaves the designated spot to retrieve the fumble. Is this a violation?

RULING: No. Since there was a fumble, the official shall blow his/ her whistle, which causes the ball to become dead, and then shall re-administer the throw-in. (Rule 4-31.1 and 7-6.5)

And here's an issue I have with this. Suppose that team B is putting a lot of pressure on the throw-in. You reach 4 seconds when A1 fumbles the ball. Doesn't that give an extra advantage to A, who gets a new 5 second count when you re-administer?

Sounds like a rule the coaches can attempt to hustle us on.
Wondering if the interpretation really means if the thrower fumbles upon receiving the ball & not after it has been in their possession???

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by wanja

Your statement does not accurately reflect the original post (see below). In both cases the ball enters the court. In both cases, after the ball last leaves the thrower's hands, the ball hits the thrower's foot before it has inbounds status.

I am fully aware that the ball strikes the thrower's foot before heading inbounds. It could also strike his knee or some other body part. It doesn't matter. As long as it goes directly from the player to the inbounds area of the court, there is nothing wrong. I took that into account in making my statement.

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the shoulder and rebounds into the inbounds area of the court without touching anywhere else? Is that a violation?

[wanja]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the shoulder and rebounds into the inbounds area of the court without touching anywhere else? Is that a violation?

Yes. As an earlier poster noted it comes down to what is the definition of a pass directly onto the court. A ball that leaves a throwers hands and does not directly enter the court inbounds (e.g. hits a foot or shoulder out of bounds) is not a pass directly onto the court. We apparently disagree on this point. It woud be useful to get NFHS clarification of this definition via a case or other means.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the shoulder and rebounds into the inbounds area of the court without touching anywhere else? Is that a violation?

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the head, and because of the amount of hair gel A2 is wearing, sticks to his head? I guess you would just continue your five second count.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the head, and because of the amount of hair gel A2 is wearing, sticks to his head? I guess you would just continue your five second count.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by wanja

It would be useful to get NFHS clarification of this definition via a case or other means.

Agree. I've been pondering this situation for several days, and have thoroughly searched the rulebook, casebook, and annual interpretations, and I can't find a definitive answer for this (throwin ball accidentally hits foot and caroms inbounds).

It comes down to this. Either a throwin ball that accidentally goes from the throwerin's hands to his foot and then inbounds is directly thrown inbounds, and is thus legal, or it's indirectly thrown inbounds, since it didn't go directly from hands to inbounds, and is thus, illegal, and is a violation.

And, I don't believe that this is a one in a million situation that isn't worth discussing. I think that this is a situation that really could happen.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MatthewPV

Player A has the ball ready to throw it in. Player A bounces the ball, but hits his foot and bounces twice before crossing the endline.

Several members have commented that this is a violation. They're probably correct. However, since a throwin player is allowed to intentionally dribble the ball out of bounds before making the throwin, isn't that player also allowed to make an interrupted dribble out of bounds, within his designated spot, before making a throwin? What if it's a run the endline throwin? Also, if it is a violation, and it probably is, exactly when does the violation occur, when the ball hits the foot, when the ball hits out of bounds after it hits the foot, when the ball crosses the endline, or at some other time? In this post, for simplicity reasons, I'm assuming that the player is intentionally dribbling the ball, and that's this is not a fumble. Making it a fumble, I believe, would further complicate matters.

[Adam]

I'm going to chime in with this. If it takes serious logical gymnastics to come up with why it's a violation when it happens so rarely as to never likely occur during a given official's career, let it go.

Chances are, when it does happen, the player who muffed it will be the first to touch it after it lands in bounds anyway, and you can call that violation. For the even fewer cases where the player is heady enough to let it bounce and there happens to be a teammate in bounds near by, give them the benefit of the doubt for their quick thinking.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

When it happens so rarely as to never likely occur during a given official's career, let it go.

Where's the fun in that?

[And-1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS 9.1.1 SITUATION: A1, at the free-throw line to attempt a free throw: (a) muffs the pass from the official and it rolls forward; or (b) while performing his/her habitual dribbles prior to the release, accidentally allows the ball to deflect off his/her foot into the lane. RULING: In (a), the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations and then start the free throw procedure again. No freethrow violation should be called in this situation. In (b), a free-throw violation shall be called on A1. (9-1-3a, e)

Is it still a violation if the free thrower ball deflect off his/her foot and a team member gets the ball and toss it back to his/her teamate to finish the free throw?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by And-1

Is it still a violation if the free thrower ball deflect off his/her foot and a team member gets the ball and toss it back to his/her teamate to finish the free throw?

Yes.

Should it be? That's a different question.