Putting the ball in play...

[Nevadaref]

There is an NCAA case ruling which says to stop play and readminister the throw-in. The NFHS doesn't have such a ruling, but does have a very similar one for a FT.

I'm of the opinion that if the player screws up and loses the ball after having clear control, then that is his fault and he doesn't deserve another chance.

I would allow play to continue in case (a), but call a throw-in violation in case (b).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS doesn't have such a ruling, but does have a very similar one for a FT.

NFHS 9.1.1 SITUATION: A1, at the free-throw line to attempt a free throw: (a) muffs the pass from the official and it rolls forward; or (b) while performing his/her habitual dribbles prior to the release, accidentally allows the ball to deflect off his/her foot into the lane. RULING: In (a), the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations and then start the free throw procedure again. No freethrow violation should be called in this situation. In (b), a free-throw violation shall be called on A1. (9-1-3a, e)

[And-1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS 9.1.1 SITUATION: A1, at the free-throw line to attempt a free throw: (a) muffs the pass from the official and it rolls forward; or (b) while performing his/her habitual dribbles prior to the release, accidentally allows the ball to deflect off his/her foot into the lane. RULING: In (a), the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations and then start the free throw procedure again. No freethrow violation should be called in this situation. In (b), a free-throw violation shall be called on A1. (9-1-3a, e)

Is it still a violation if the free thrower ball deflect off his/her foot and a team member gets the ball and toss it back to his/her teamate to finish the free throw?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by And-1

Is it still a violation if the free thrower ball deflect off his/her foot and a team member gets the ball and toss it back to his/her teamate to finish the free throw?

Yes.

Should it be? That's a different question.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MatthewPV

Player A has the ball ready to throw it in.
(A) Player A bounces the ball, but hits his foot and on the fly crossed over the endline and lands inbounds.
(B) Player A bounces the ball, but hits his foot and bounces twice before crossing the endline.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm of the opinion that if the player screws up and loses the ball after having clear control, then that is his fault and he doesn't deserve another chance. I would allow play to continue in case (a), but call a throw-in violation in case (b).

Why would you allow (a) without calling a violation? I'm not completely disagreeing with you, I just need some convincing, maybe with a rulebook or casebook reference. Please.

[wanja]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There is an NCAA case ruling which says to stop play and readminister the throw-in. The NFHS doesn't have such a ruling, but does have a very similar one for a FT.

I'd like to see that NFHS case. Can you provide a reference?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by wanja

I'd like to see that NFHS case. Can you provide a reference?

BillyMac just posted it above.

[wanja]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

BillyMac just posted it above.

In the cited free throw case there was no violation in (A) when control was not established. However in (B) control was established and there was a violation. With regard to the original throw in situations, in both A and B the thrower had control, failed to directly pass the ball onto the court and thus violated in both cases

[Nevadaref]

The NFHS FT ruling in part (b) is new as of last season. Prior to that the official was instructed to give it back to him and allow him to attempt the FT.

Why do you state that the thrower has failed to pass the ball directly into the court in both cases? The ball only bounces out of bounds in one of the two cases. In the other case the ball goes directly from the player into the court. That's legal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The ball only bounces out of bounds in one of the two cases. In the other case the ball goes directly from the player into the court. That's legal.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but be careful with your reasoning. The ball actually bounces out of bounds in both cases:

NFHS- Rule 7
SECTION 1 OUT-OF-BOUNDS — PLAYER, BALL
ART. 1 . . . A player is out of bounds when he/she touches the floor, or any
object other than a player/person, on or outside a boundary. For location of a
player in the air, see 4-35.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds:
a. When it touches or is touched by:
1. A player who is out of bounds.
2. Any other person, the floor, or any object on or outside a boundary.
3. The supports or back of the backboard.
4. The ceiling, overhead equipment or supports.
b. When it passes over a rectangular backboard.

I guess the crux of this situation is, what does directly onto the court really mean? It is legal for the throwin player to "dribble" the ball before a throwin. However, it is illegal for a throwin player to throwin a long throwin bounce pass that hits out of bounds, outside the designated spot, before the throwin ends. Again, it comes down to what does directly onto the court mean?

NFHS 9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

[wanja]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why do you state that the thrower has failed to pass the ball directly into the court in both cases? The ball only bounces out of bounds in one of the two cases. In the other case the ball goes directly from the player into the court. That's legal.

Your statement does not accurately reflect the original post (see below). In both cases the ball enters the court. In both cases, after the ball last leaves the thrower's hands, the ball hits the thrower's foot before it has inbounds status.

Originally Posted by MatthewPV

Player A has the ball ready to throw it in. (A) Player A bounces the ball, but hits his foot and on the fly crossed over the endline and lands inbounds or (B) Player A bounces the ball, but hits his foot and bounces twice before crossing the endline.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by wanja

Your statement does not accurately reflect the original post (see below). In both cases the ball enters the court. In both cases, after the ball last leaves the thrower's hands, the ball hits the thrower's foot before it has inbounds status.

I am fully aware that the ball strikes the thrower's foot before heading inbounds. It could also strike his knee or some other body part. It doesn't matter. As long as it goes directly from the player to the inbounds area of the court, there is nothing wrong. I took that into account in making my statement.

What if the throw-in were following a made goal and A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 who is also standing OOB behind the endline, yet the ball strikes A2 in the shoulder and rebounds into the inbounds area of the court without touching anywhere else? Is that a violation?

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There is an NCAA case ruling which says to stop play and readminister the throw-in.

Here's the NCAA case:

A.R. 175. A1, on a throw-in from a designated spot, fumbles. A1 leaves the designated spot to retrieve the fumble. Is this a violation?

RULING: No. Since there was a fumble, the official shall blow his/ her whistle, which causes the ball to become dead, and then shall re-administer the throw-in. (Rule 4-31.1 and 7-6.5)

And here's an issue I have with this. Suppose that team B is putting a lot of pressure on the throw-in. You reach 4 seconds when A1 fumbles the ball. Doesn't that give an extra advantage to A, who gets a new 5 second count when you re-administer?

Originally Posted by Lotto

Here's the NCAA case:

A.R. 175. A1, on a throw-in from a designated spot, fumbles. A1 leaves the designated spot to retrieve the fumble. Is this a violation?

RULING: No. Since there was a fumble, the official shall blow his/ her whistle, which causes the ball to become dead, and then shall re-administer the throw-in. (Rule 4-31.1 and 7-6.5)

And here's an issue I have with this. Suppose that team B is putting a lot of pressure on the throw-in. You reach 4 seconds when A1 fumbles the ball. Doesn't that give an extra advantage to A, who gets a new 5 second count when you re-administer?

Sounds like a rule the coaches can attempt to hustle us on.
Wondering if the interpretation really means if the thrower fumbles upon receiving the ball & not after it has been in their possession???