New to Board-Weird Game Tonight

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Hard to explain, but this whole thing just doesn't sound right. Ref'n exclusively in dysfunctional rec leagues is not a very good way to prepare for NCAA basketball. JMO

This is exactly what I was thinking too. I don't know why anyone would even want to go straight from rec leagues to NCAA games.

dmbfan, you say you've been on a college coaching staff. What level and what did you do? At 24, I would be very surprised if you have been an actual assistant coach anywhere above the D3/NAIA level.

I just can't figure out why you wouldn't want to become high school certified and at least work varsity games for a few years before going into college games. Around here if you're just working rec games and aren't high school certified, you're not really taken seriously.

[dmbfan285]

Originally Posted by zm1283

This is exactly what I was thinking too. I don't know why anyone would even want to go straight from rec leagues to NCAA games.

dmbfan, you say you've been on a college coaching staff. What level and what did you do? At 24, I would be very surprised if you have been an actual assistant coach anywhere above the D3/NAIA level.

I just can't figure out why you wouldn't want to become high school certified and at least work varsity games for a few years before going into college games. Around here if you're just working rec games and aren't high school certified, you're not really taken seriously.

I was a graduate assistant coach for a D-1 Big East school. My duties included scouting of opponents, assisting with instruction (practice and in-game), travelling with the team, film exchange, etc.. I did that for 2 seasons.

Its not that I did not want to be HS certified but when I was in grad school (just graduated in May) my schedule did not allow me to attend meetings and classes because of my graduate schedule and travel schedule with the team.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by dmbfan285

I was a graduate assistant coach for a D-1 Big East school. My duties included scouting of opponents, assisting with instruction (practice and in-game), travelling with the team, film exchange, etc.. I did that for 2 seasons.

Its not that I did not want to be HS certified but when I was in grad school (just graduated in May) my schedule did not allow me to attend meetings and classes because of my graduate schedule and travel schedule with the team.

Then try to at least get into JuCo. I know someone who was an athletic trainer at a Big East school. I know he worked intra-murals while in college. Don't know how much HS ball he did, but he would travel from NYC to Maryland to work JuCo ball. He's in the WNBA and D-League now.

If you're trying to by-pass HS ball (it can be done) then you need to spend a lot more time in formal camps and talking about on-court situations you encounter there. Leave all this Rec League drama behind when you leave the gym. Use it for $$$, but don't expect to learn much from it.

[dmbfan285]

Thank you for the pointers there. I know the rec leagues do suck but I make good money and I know there is drama sometimes but every game I do I learn something and its a good place for me to improve my mechanics.

[JerzeeRef]

Now that school is over, and if you are serious here is the link to Central / North Jersey IAABO Board 33. At the bottom of this page is the email address of the gentleman who handles the cadet class.

[url=http://www.board33.org/]

Good luck

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by dmbfan285

I appreciate everyones comments, but I am not here to be told that what im doing is not possible. I have been a part of a college coaching staff and have attended numerous college recruiting camps (invite only) and have met a lot of people. Yes its rare but it happens.

I was always told its who you know, and thats helped me to this point.

OK, good luck to you. Who you know might get you that first game, and it might even get you a year's worth of games, but after that, you're being evaluated (and complained about) by people you don't know.

And no assignor or supervisor of officials on God's green earth is going to put themselves on the line for someone who thinks they know it all but who lacks the abilities that can only be won through experience at increasingly competitive levels.

Go ahead. Fly high. Just understand that it's not all gliding.

Or, to quoth the great Earl Weaver: "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."

[dsturdy5]

A few questions/points to ponder...

1. When you recommended the player be suspended, is this standard protocal for this league?

2. Who is the game management at these games? I've worked rec and even some travel league games where there is none and we are expected to be GM (fairly or unfairly). I find that leagues with visible and approachable GM are the ones I tend to take games from first and foremost.

3. Do things like this happen regularly during games in this league? If so, you may wish to drop this league from your list of leagues to work.

4. Do things like this happen regularly (or more than a few times a year) in games you work? I'm not asking this to say it is all your fault, heavens knows coaches, players, and parents can be absolute jerks a lot of the times and need to be dealt with, but think about IF it is happening more than it seems is appropriate in your games. Can YOU do you anything differently?

5. I have had a similar post game exchange with a player (5th grader!) and his dad, but I did what someone else suggested. I just recorded the technical with the table and the game was over, the dad came over after the game (I had another) and he hit the roof. I was young like you, probably about 25.

I called the assignor, this parent had called him first and filled his head with lies. My partner stuck by me (as did the rest of the people in the gym) and in the end the kid was punished for his actions (something in the area of 10 technicals during the season...again 5th grade!), the parent was suspended for the next game, and the league wrote new rules regarding behavior for parents, players, and coaches effective immediately.


The best advice I have for dealing with confrontational parents is what someone else here once told me. "Silence cannot be quoted." In the end, do what works for you and what is right for the situation. If sarcasm works, use it. If you need to be stern, do it. If you have to walk away, that is what you do. There is no fix-all.

[Tio]

I agree with other posters in that you should stay away from recommending suspensions. Penalize the actions, follow whatever documentation process the league has in place and let them make the decision.

Stay away from parents. They are biased observers. In this field half love our call and the other half hates it.... biased parties have difficulty seeing the reality... whether we got the play right. Nothing good can happen from the interaction.

If the team had 2 #11s, by rule it is a technical foul. Unless the rules specifically state to the contrary or provide an exception for this, call the T.... the coach who has been a pain is down 20, so no harm done. By not adjudicating the rules, you have opened yourself to objectivity and consistency claims... ie only enforcing the rules we choose to tonight.... we need to remember that our job is to "ensure the fairness of the contest" by enforcing the 'rules.'

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

If the team had 2 #11s, by rule it is a technical foul. Unless the rules specifically state to the contrary or provide an exception for this, call the T.... the coach who has been a pain is down 20, so no harm done. By not adjudicating the rules, you have opened yourself to objectivity and consistency claims... ie only enforcing the rules we choose to tonight.... we need to remember that our job is to "ensure the fairness of the contest" by enforcing the 'rules.'

In rec ball, I wouldn't call it. Varsity? Easy call.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In rec ball, I wouldn't call it. Varsity? Easy call.

So I'm doing a mens wreck league the other night & one player (who sweats a lot) soaked his shirt near the end of the 2nd half, so he took it off & went skins.

The opposing team went nuts (a couple of I ref too players on that team). "You know that's a T, call the game right ref."

Mind you, this demand is coming from a team with multiple #21s, wearing black, navy blue & royal blue jerseys

Come on 11/30!!

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

So I'm doing a mens wreck league the other night & one player (who sweats a lot) soaked his shirt near the end of the 2nd half, so he took it off & went skins.

The opposing team went nuts (a couple of I ref too players on that team). "You know that's a T, call the game right ref."

Mind you, this demand is coming from a team with multiple #21s, wearing black, navy blue & royal blue jerseys

Come on 11/30!!

Classic story Ch1town!

I had several occasions this yr in Rec Ball where the teams where "pennies" that got mixed up so teams have multiple same numbers. Most coaches try to put a "1" in front of the "2" or "3" with masking tape or medical tape to make them "12" and "13".....which eventually peels off when soaked through and then falls off.... and who has to police this up. Sure, me. Then where are we? Back where we started.

Once, after discussing with the coaches and table I was relegated to saying to the table when reporting something like: "Red, 3, Black, Hold." To identify the Red "#3" was the "black" player as opposed to the "white" #3......

Ain't Rec Leagues fun?

[rsl]

In the "dumb things from coaches" category, I was doing a rec league game with uniform problems, and a team had both a 0 and a 00. I informed the coach and his reply was

"What's wrong with that? 1 and 11 aren't the same number!"

Trouble was, he wasn't joking. He really didn't get it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rsl

A team had both a 0 and a 00. I informed the coach and his reply was "What's wrong with that? 1 and 11 aren't the same number!"

To some statistical computer programs, 0, and 00, are the same number.

Stupid computers.

SI.com - Photo Gallery - Best Athletes by Number: 00-31

SI.com - More Sports - The*best athletes by number - Thursday July 5, 2007 11:50AM

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by dmbfan285

Thank you for the pointers there. I know the rec leagues do suck but I make good money and I know there is drama sometimes but every game I do I learn something and its a good place for me to improve my mechanics.

Im going to take your side on this one dmbfan. I guess just because I took a very similar road you are taking now. I worked hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of games of rec and low level AAU tournaments and even now at this point and time of my career I still go back and ref in the offseason and hope that I have some crazy, screwed up games! For the most part about 85-90% of the rec and AAU games I worked were non-competitive or I guess I should say they had no intensity about them, but I kept plugging away just trying to gain valuable experience. It never seemed to fail though that there would almost always be a screwed up game with a player, coach or fan or the fact that the game was too physical and on edge. This is when I truly learned!! And I attribute it to making me the official I am today. You can do all the HS "certified" games you want and all the college games you want, but I was getting one of those "crazy" games at LEAST once a weekend and you won't see that but maybe once in a season of college or HS ball. These games teach you game management and allow you to work on your communications whether it be with your partner(s), table crew and yes, even the coaches. It also teaches you how to control a game if your partner is very inexperienced, In other words it contributes to your "Crew Chief Mentality".

I believe as you get older and you have gained even more experience and had your "fill" of those crazy games that you will be like most on this forum and will tell people to give them up and work nothing but regular season, but those rec games in the summer are what I believe to be the true "training ground" and "baptism by fire" games. That being said though you still need to get your college and HS games in for the valued experience of not kicking a rule and the atmosphere that can come along with them. Those are different beasts in and of themselves, but learning how to manage the game and fine tuning your skills (the one none of the regular mundane fans notice) is the place for the rec league games.