Weird Play in AAU Game tonight

[IREFU2]

I had a weird play happen tonight and was wondering if I did the thing. A1 is on the free throw line for one and one. He bounces the ball in the lane (kind of does that spin thing to make it come back to him) and the ball stops dead in the middle of the lane. B1 reaches in the lane and grabs the ball. I immediately call a violation on B1 for touching ball. I give A1 another chance at the one and one. Was that the correct way of handling this? I have never had this happen before.

[Snake~eyes]

Sounds like the freethrower lost the ball? Just blow the whistle and readminister the throw-in. Essentially the same outcome but I would not have called a violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

I had a weird play happen tonight and was wondering if I did the thing. A1 is on the free throw line for one and one. He bounces the ball in the lane (kind of does that spin thing to make it come back to him) and the ball stops dead in the middle of the lane. B1 reaches in the lane and grabs the ball. I immediately call a violation on B1 for touching ball. I give A1 another chance at the one and one. Was that the correct way of handling this? I have never had this happen before.

If you are using NFHS rules then you didn't handle it precisely right, but close enough.
There is a case play (9.1.1 see below) which instructs you to whistle immediately to prevent any lane violations when the ball accidently gets away from the shooter.
So you should have just hit the whislte and readministered the front end of the one and one.

Now it sounds like you did that, but you state that you called a lane violation on B1. Since that is the case, you should have been indicating a delayed violation during the replacement FT and if it was missed, then the shooter gets another try. I seriously doubt that you did this, so you got the right administration for the wrong reason.

Here's the case play:
FREE-THROWER LOSES BALL
9.1.1 SITUATION: A1, at the free throw line to attempt a free throw (a) muffs the pass from the official and it rolls forward; or (b) accidentally drops the ball before the throwing motion is started. RULING: In (a) and (b) the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations and then start the free throw procedure again.

[IREFU2]

But, he didnt actually loose the ball. He was showing off and trying to look cool by tossing the ball out into the lane with a back spin on it. So it was actually his fault.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

But, he didnt actually loose the ball. He was showing off and trying to look cool by tossing the ball out into the lane with a back spin on it. So it was actually his fault.

Yeah, he was "showing off." Yeah, he lost the handle. He looks a little stupid. That's punishment enough. The best thing you can do, is just follow the case play and get play going again. The worst thing you can do is draw unwarranted and unwanted attention to yourself by making any call based on the notion that he was "showing off" and "it was actually his fault."

[Adam]

There isn't a lot of showing off here, to be honest. The back spin dribble is common before a free throw; a lot of players use it to focus and get into rythm. Unless he threw it unreasonably far, it's not really showing off. Even if he did throw it unreasonably far; give it back to him.
If you want to make a point to him, just smile and shake your head while you give it back.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Now it sounds like you did that, but you state that you called a lane violation on B1. Since that is the case, you should have been indicating a delayed violation during the replacement FT and if it was missed, then the shooter gets another try. I seriously doubt that you did this, so you got the right administration for the wrong reason.

You're right Nevada, outcome was correct but IREF's interpretation was wrong. A couple of us VA refs spoke with him about this yesterday and I think he has seen the error of his ways.

[daveg144]

I had almost exactly the same thing happen Saturday night. Kid fumbled the ball while dribbling at the line before shooting the first of two shots. He looked over at me (I was trail) and I motioned for him to pick up the ball and start over. He missed the first and made the second. Opposing coach was asking why we didn't call a violation. I told him it wasn't a violation, the kid just fumbled the ball. He gave me a look but said nothing more.

More importantly, where do they get some of these AAU coaches? So many of them have no clue as to the rules and they whine and complain about almost every call (or no call). You can't reason with them because they know EVERYTHING (and we don't know ANYTHING). It is fun to whack them and make them sit down.

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally Posted by daveg144

More importantly, where do they get some of these AAU coaches? So many of them have no clue as to the rules and they whine and complain about almost every call (or no call). You can't reason with them because they know EVERYTHING (and we don't know ANYTHING). It is fun to whack them and make them sit down.

AAU = Amatuer A$&H@!# United!!!

Most of the coaches on the AAU circuit are wannabes at best, street agents or guys that are trying to make a mark. Some programs have actual coaches that work with the kids to improve their game. Others just hire friends of the people that start the AAU program; most of these guys couldn't coach themselves out of an unlocked convertible with the top down, if you know what I mean.

[jkjenning]

Hey SeanFitzRef and daveg144, it would be better to think of these AAU coaches in a more respectful manner. When a coach steps up to fill a spot and does not have the qualifications you would like, just assume that the coach has a desire to see the kids compete; also assume that there were hours off the court that the coach has dedicated, without pay, to working with the kids; in contrast, we show up for an hour to call the game and get paid. Find some respect.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

Hey SeanFitzRef and daveg144, it would be better to think of these AAU coaches in a more respectful manner. When a coach steps up to fill a spot and does not have the qualifications you would like, just assume that the coach has a desire to see the kids compete; also assume that there were hours off the court that the coach has dedicated, without pay, to working with the kids; in contrast, we show up for an hour to call the game and get paid. Find some respect.

While I hear what you're saying and even agree to a point......
This respect you speak of, goes both ways.

[SeanFitzRef]

JKJennings,

I agree, to a point. The statement I made isn't an assumption I made, because I used to be an AAU coach before becoming an official. The respect that you speak of is given until proven otherwise. It's just that most AAU coaches prove otherwise. There is a reason I say 'most', because there are some very qualified gentlemen and women that work the sidelies on the AAU circuit, but they are overshadowed by the others. While I know that we have to act as professionally as possible at ALL times, most AAU coaches think they are coaching game 7 of the NBA Finals, and react accordingly. I tend to ignore most comments made by them due to their lack of knowledge of the rules; most of them played at some point (as did I), but never bothered to learn the true rules that they are bound to coach by. So what you get from these coaches is a lot of screaming, whining, and moaning which only makes them look foolish if they don't know the basic premise for their argument. The worst thing to do in this sitch is to argue back. No one will be able to determine which one is the fool.

FYI, a lot more AAU coaches are paid than are volunteers.

You are 100% right, Chris. Always a two way street.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by SeanFitzRef

JKJennings,

I agree, to a point. The statement I made isn't an assumption I made, because I used to be an AAU coach before becoming an official. The respect that you speak of is given until proven otherwise. It's just that most AAU coaches prove otherwise. There is a reason I say 'most', because there are some very qualified gentlemen and women that work the sidelies on the AAU circuit, but they are overshadowed by the others. While I know that we have to act as professionally as possible at ALL times, most AAU coaches think they are coaching game 7 of the NBA Finals, and react accordingly. I tend to ignore most comments made by them due to their lack of knowledge of the rules; most of them played at some point (as did I), but never bothered to learn the true rules that they are bound to coach by. So what you get from these coaches is a lot of screaming, whining, and moaning which only makes them look foolish if they don't know the basic premise for their argument. The worst thing to do in this sitch is to argue back. No one will be able to determine which one is the fool.

FYI, a lot more AAU coaches are paid than are volunteers.

You are 100% right, Chris. Always a two way street.

AAU is definately a place to get tough skin, which in turn will help you in the High School Season. It also teaches you patiences as well as how to display professionalism. All of these are good quailities of a good official.

[coachgbert]

As an AAU coach I can honestly tell you that there are all kinds of coaches, as there are all kinds of officials.

We had a semi-final game where the opposing coach was tossed after (I believe too much) ranting and raving for about the first 8 minutes of a 28 minute game. The coach went out on the floor after the ref. He was tossed, refused to leave, had to be escorted out and then waited in the parking lot for hours (for what reason we still do not know). His girls had his sense of sportsmanship. He contested the game and called my team a "rec" team who had no business playing the caliber of team that he has.

We won, 32-28, but here is the amazing part. After the game the officials told me that he too is an official and they had worked with him in the past. His other 7th grade team (we were playing his 8th grade girls) said they weren't surprised he was tossed as he gets at least one T per game in a tournament.

Other coaches are a joy to coach with and against. Most of the coaches I know aren't wrapped up in their egos so much that they lose sight of the fact that we are supposed to be teaching and helping these kids develop their skills. This coach yelled at the officials to stop telling his girls what they did wrong and just ref the game. The one official called a foul on his big girl under the basket for "clearing" out and swinging her elbows. She clonked one of my girls and they called it. The coach went ballistic. When the ref tried to explain that you can't wildly swing your elbows and hit anything in sight the coach argued that it was legal. According to his fans the refs did not make one call correctly all night, hence that is how we won. We didn't win on skill or scoring, but on bad officiating. Now I know the secret of winning. Imagine, it's been kept a secret from me for the past 7 years!

Anyway, just a perspective from a coach of a girls AAU team.

Coach G-bert.
(ps: We ended up winning the tournament and beating a team that has beat us the past five times we played them. Must have been some bad officiating that won us that game too, but nobody complained about it. )

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by coachgbert

As an AAU coach I can honestly tell you that there are all kinds of coaches, as there are all kinds of officials.

We had a semi-final game where the opposing coach was tossed after (I believe too much) ranting and raving for about the first 8 minutes of a 28 minute game. The coach went out on the floor after the ref. He was tossed, refused to leave, had to be escorted out and then waited in the parking lot for hours (for what reason we still do not know). His girls had his sense of sportsmanship. He contested the game and called my team a "rec" team who had no business playing the caliber of team that he has.

We won, 32-28, but here is the amazing part. After the game the officials told me that he too is an official and they had worked with him in the past. His other 7th grade team (we were playing his 8th grade girls) said they weren't surprised he was tossed as he gets at least one T per game in a tournament.

Other coaches are a joy to coach with and against. Most of the coaches I know aren't wrapped up in their egos so much that they lose sight of the fact that we are supposed to be teaching and helping these kids develop their skills. This coach yelled at the officials to stop telling his girls what they did wrong and just ref the game. The one official called a foul on his big girl under the basket for "clearing" out and swinging her elbows. She clonked one of my girls and they called it. The coach went ballistic. When the ref tried to explain that you can't wildly swing your elbows and hit anything in sight the coach argued that it was legal. According to his fans the refs did not make one call correctly all night, hence that is how we won. We didn't win on skill or scoring, but on bad officiating. Now I know the secret of winning. Imagine, it's been kept a secret from me for the past 7 years!

Anyway, just a perspective from a coach of a girls AAU team.

Coach G-bert.
(ps: We ended up winning the tournament and beating a team that has beat us the past five times we played them. Must have been some bad officiating that won us that game too, but nobody complained about it. )

Thanks for your honesty and comments. I believe some coaches actually forget its for the kids. I had to toss a coach on Friday night and he kept on mouthing the whole way out of the gym. Even his kids were begging him to be quiet. Needless to say, he mouth caused his team to fall apart.