New to Board-Weird Game Tonight

[dmbfan285]

Hello everyone, I am new to the board and have been officiating basketball for 7 years (Im on 24). I have done lots of rec (elementary-semi-pro ball), College scouting camps in the summer, and tournaments.

So tonight I had a crazy game to finish off my night of 3 games. Early in the game I whacked a kid after I called a foul for using profanity regarding my call. The coach hated the initial foul call and technical but he hated every call against him all season (literally, every call).

Later in the game. 20 seconds left, the coach who hated every call yells at me to stop the game there is an issue. Did not do it until we had a dead ball. I went over to him and asked what the problem was. He told me that the other team was playing with 2 #11's and there should be a technical. Now keep in mind that this is a boys and girls club league and they all use the same pinnies (blue and white, no other color) so the pinnies could have been double issued without anyone knowing. We had other teams use two of the same number and we had no issue all season. Tonight was the last night of the regular season and this coach all of a sudden notices with 15 seconds left and he is down by 4. I told him I understood his argument but that needs to be dealt with the league. I am not going to make an assumption on something that could have happened because of the league. If there were more than 2 colors used in the league that is different.

At the end of the game, the player who I whacked earlier, turned and looked at me as I walked to the scorers table and said, "You F*ing Suck." This kid is about 16 and also works for this boys and girls club (great role model, huh). I walked away and went to a league official who was watching and I requested that the kid should be given a 1-game suspension.

I then had 3 parents corner me as I tried to leave the gym and they pulled the whole I am writing a letter about you...blah..blah...blah. Then the coach who lost came over and yelled in my face that his kid cant be suspended because the game was over and I told him its not over until I leave the confines of the court. Then the parents are saying forget about it he was frustrated. Its unbelievable to see parents say that behavior like that is ok because its sports.

These parents said that I am sure that language like that happens in college and its let go. I have been on a D-1 college coaching staff and know that is not the case. I told the mother, my exact words: "Actually the first profanity out of a college players mouth is a technical and the coaches dont deal with that; especially if its directed towards an official." This parent was shocked and was speechless. She went home after that.

Basically I am putting all of this out there to see if anyone has been in this type of situation where you are approached by numerous people after the game as you are trying to leave. Me and my partner ended up waiting a good 10 minutes until the gym cleared and people left the building before we left.

Would love to hear your take on this. "Never stop learning (especially officiating)!"

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by dmbfan285

Hello everyone, I am new to the board and have been officiating basketball for 7 years (Im on 24). I have done lots of rec (elementary-semi-pro ball), College scouting camps in the summer, and tournaments.

So tonight I had a crazy game to finish off my night of 3 games. Early in the game I whacked a kid after I called a foul for using profanity regarding my call. The coach hated the initial foul call and technical but he hated every call against him all season (literally, every call).

Later in the game. 20 seconds left, the coach who hated every call yells at me to stop the game there is an issue. Did not do it until we had a dead ball. I went over to him and asked what the problem was. He told me that the other team was playing with 2 #11's and there should be a technical. Now keep in mind that this is a boys and girls club league and they all use the same pinnies (blue and white, no other color) so the pinnies could have been double issued without anyone knowing. We had other teams use two of the same number and we had no issue all season. Tonight was the last night of the regular season and this coach all of a sudden notices with 15 seconds left and he is down by 4. I told him I understood his argument but that needs to be dealt with the league. I am not going to make an assumption on something that could have happened because of the league. If there were more than 2 colors used in the league that is different.

At the end of the game, the player who I whacked earlier, turned and looked at me as I walked to the scorers table and said, "You F*ing Suck." This kid is about 16 and also works for this boys and girls club (great role model, huh). I walked away and went to a league official who was watching and I requested that the kid should be given a 1-game suspension.

I then had 3 parents corner me as I tried to leave the gym and they pulled the whole I am writing a letter about you...blah..blah...blah. Then the coach who lost came over and yelled in my face that his kid cant be suspended because the game was over and I told him its not over until I leave the confines of the court. Then the parents are saying forget about it he was frustrated. Its unbelievable to see parents say that behavior like that is ok because its sports.

These parents said that I am sure that language like that happens in college and its let go. I have been on a D-1 college coaching staff and know that is not the case. I told the mother, my exact words: "Actually the first profanity out of a college players mouth is a technical and the coaches dont deal with that; especially if its directed towards an official." This parent was shocked and was speechless. She went home after that.

Basically I am putting all of this out there to see if anyone has been in this type of situation where you are approached by numerous people after the game as you are trying to leave. Me and my partner ended up waiting a good 10 minutes until the gym cleared and people left the building before we left.

Would love to hear your take on this. "Never stop learning (especially officiating)!"

My take...get certified, work in the real season only (except for camp) and leave the summer bull**** behind ya.

[dmbfan285]

Oh I hear you. I make more money with rec ball than I would HS actually and I havnt got certified cause I go to a lot of college camps and am working my way up. Much rather do that than HS.

[Nevadaref]

1. Learn to walk right by the parents after the game and not say a word to them. You made a huge mistake by engaging them in conversation. As you learned they have so many positive things to say to you following a game.

2. I'm amazed that you think that you can get hired at the college level without any HS officiating experience. Perhaps that is the way that it works where you are. If so, good luck to you.

3. I would still recommend that you get HS certified.

4. If you are doing the rec leagues for the money, then be prepared to deal with the garbage that comes with the dough. My experience with rec leagues is that is what you are getting paid for.

5. Lastly, at 24 you are still very young. I would guess that is why the parents and kids think that they are able to address you like that. Perhaps they still see you as a youth. You will probably find that when you get some gray hairs, you will be treated differently, especially by the adults.

[grunewar]

It's just one game. You handled yourself fine.

As Nevada said, always try to avoid these types of situations by steering clear of unnecessary contact with players, coaches, parents, fans, etc. It’s one situation/game out of hundreds – heck, maybe it’s THEM and not YOU.

Continue to remain calm and professional. Try to walk away. Be the bigger person. Report it to the league and let them handle it. If they don’t handle it like you would like and/or support you, then you have to decide whether or not you want to work in that league anymore. Money is good, but is it worth the aggravation? Your call.

We’ve all had our share of bad situations. I have leagues I like better than others. Whether I choose to go back is my decision. Learn from it and move on.

Good luck.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by dmbfan285

Oh I hear you. I make more money with rec ball than I would HS actually and I havnt got certified cause I go to a lot of college camps and am working my way up. Much rather do that than HS.

Based on your description of your evening I would say you still have a lot to learn about officiating. I'm not talking about the inappropriate behavior and action of the players, coaches, and parents. I'm talking about how you described the evening. Especially the part where you requested that a player get suspended.

You need to get certified and really learn about the art and science of officiating.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Based on your description of your evening I would say you still have a lot to learn about officiating. I'm not talking about the inappropriate behavior and action of the players, coaches, and parents. I'm talking about how you described the evening. Especially the part where you requested that a player get suspended.

You need to get certified and really learn about the art and science of officiating.

I can see where you're coming from, because it shouldn't be our position to make such requests, however, in some leagues (and I did a YMCA league that was like this), the officials are considered employees (have to submit background checks and child abuse registry checks) but are not paid like employees (taxes are not withheld). In such leagues, the director will still expect some kind of enforcement similar to what happened in the OP, that the official may make the request to have someone suspended because of their actions. I actually had a situation where I tossed a parent during the game (yes, I know, we're not supposed to listen to them, but it was very confined quarters and he was inches from me when he berated me) and when the director came over to escort him out, the director asked me if it was just for the day or if he needed to wait a couple weeks. I told her it was up to her, and she then asked how about he doesn't come back next week. I said that's fine, but entirely up to you. Afterwards, she told me to get a backbone and make the decision myself. When I tried to tell her that's not my position to take as an official, she "corrected" me and told me that was the expectation of her officials. That ended up being the last time I worked at that YMCA.

[Adam]

You asked for feedback, so I'll offer my $.02.

It sounds like you let the coach get away with way too much yapping. If he's questioning every call all year, he got away with way too much. Stop that early, and you'll be surprised how the players respond. Maybe not this game, but the next one anyway.

Also, with the player spouting off after the game; calmly walk to the table and have the scorer record a technical foul on said player. He now has two for this game, and most likely, you do not have to request a suspension as it will be automatic (depending on league rules).

Where was the site manager during all this? There is no excuse for them to allow the parents and the coach to berate you like that after a game. This stuff can (and has) turn violent, so you need to just walk away, get in your car, and drive home. And I'd be on the phone with the assigner before I even got out of the parking lot. "Better site management or I'm not coming back."

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2. I'm amazed that you think that you can get hired at the college level without any HS officiating experience. Perhaps that is the way that it works where you are. If so, good luck to you.

3. I would still recommend that you get HS certified.

Agreed. I've heard of officials going from HS to lower level pro ball but I've never heard of anyone going from rec league to anywhere. There's just no possible way you can be prepared for that jump.

[dmbfan285]

I appreciate everyones comments, but I am not here to be told that what im doing is not possible. I have been a part of a college coaching staff and have attended numerous college recruiting camps (invite only) and have met a lot of people. Yes its rare but it happens.

I was always told its who you know, and thats helped me to this point.

I posted my situation to see others officials take on the situation and if they have encountered something similar. I appreciate the feedback from the few who have given points on the situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dmbfan285

I appreciate everyones comments, but I am not here to be told that what im doing is not possible. I have been a part of a college coaching staff and have attended numerous college recruiting camps (invite only) and have met a lot of people. Yes its rare but it happens.

I was always told its who you know, and thats helped me to this point.

I posted my situation to see others officials take on the situation and if they have encountered something similar. I appreciate the feedback from the few who have given points on the situation.

Easy slugger, they're just expressing surprise. As Nevada said, if it can be done, more power to you.

I would add surprise that you're making more money with these rec league games than you would high school games. Around here, rec leagues pay about 40% of what JV games pay.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I would add surprise that you're making more money with these rec league games than you would high school games. Around here, rec leagues pay about 40% of what JV games pay.

Not that surprising.

On a per-hour basis, adult rec league pays way better for me than high school JV.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Easy slugger, they're just expressing surprise. As Nevada said, if it can be done, more power to you.

I wouldn't be surprised as nothing about the camp scene surprises me anymore
Camped with an official who couldn't pass the HS test but that same official was picked up in a college conference... it's definitely about "who" one knows.

[Mark Padgett]

As you get more experience, you'll develop your own way to deal with these morons. Eventually, your attitude and responses will be a projection of your own personality.

Some officials just totally ignore these actions and just walk out without even acknowledging the comments, while others (like me) take great pleasure in giving back even more than we get, mostly in a sarcastic, and possibly even confrontational, manner. I'm not recommending you do that at all, but I am saying that how officials respond includes a very wide variety of actions. There's no one answer that works for everyone.

If I had to guess, I would think that the majority of officials try to ignore those people as much as possible. Personally, I don't think that's any fun at all.

[Raymond]

What official who is on a "fast track" to college basketball says a coach has hated every call I've made all season? Who even thinks that way? After 7 years of officiating I wouldn't want my primary games to be of this caliber.

Hard to explain, but this whole thing just doesn't sound right. Ref'n exclusively in dysfunctional rec leagues is not a very good way to prepare for NCAA basketball. JMO

I know what it is, something I already adhered to but I heard it again in camp this summer. When you talk about basketball, talk like an official. Use officiating terms, talk about mechanics, discuss rules, talk about philosophies.

But to answering the following:

Originally Posted by dmbfan285

Basically I am putting all of this out there to see if anyone has been in this type of situation where you are approached by numerous people after the game as you are trying to leave. Me and my partner ended up waiting a good 10 minutes until the gym cleared and people left the building before we left.

Would love to hear your take on this. "Never stop learning (especially officiating)!"

I don't wait. I walk to where I need to be (locker room/bleachers/locker room) and avoid eye contact. I make myself unapproachable.