Officials' Time-out signal and mechanic

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Even though it is not sufficient, I wouldn't say it is not relevant. Team control is implied by player control.

Not relevant would be like saying that the ability to be granted a timeout depends on the number of team fouls.

I would say it's not relevant because having team control has nothing to do with the ability to request a timeout.

Not only is it not sufficient, it's not even required (at disposal). Team control never matters. The fact that it's always present during player control means nothing with regard to timeouts.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I would say it's not relevant because having team control has nothing to do with the ability to request a timeout.

Not only is it not sufficient, it's not even required (at disposal). Team control never matters. The fact that it's always present during player control means nothing with regard to timeouts.

Agreed. Team control is neither required, nor sufficient for a legal time out request. At best it is casually related. Sometimes.

Just a whacky analogy: A player who is holding the ball most likely has a pivot foot. But, like team control, there are cases where a time out may be granted without an established pivot foot. However, unlike team control, having a pivot foot is sufficient for a legal time out request (assuming the request comes from the holder, a player teammate or his/her head coach). So...as relevancy goes, having a pivot foot, which we would agree is completely irrelevant to time out requests, may be less irrelevant than having team control.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I would say it's not relevant because having team control has nothing to do with the ability to request a timeout.

Not only is it not sufficient, it's not even required (at disposal). Team control never matters. The fact that it's always present during player control means nothing with regard to timeouts.

But, team control by the other team (among other things) does preclude being granted a timeout. And that is what I read the original post to be talking about...verifying that one team has control vs the other team having control. And, the fact that the other team does have team control directly means that a team can't have a timeout.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ILMalti

Ok so now you are saying that a person dribbling a ball does not have team control? If there is player control there is team control

For completenes see rule 4.12.2

There is team control during an interrupted dribble and a pass in flight. Will you be granting a time-out?

Originally Posted by ILMalti

see my post to Mick and see rule 5.8.3. Team control is relevant

Kinda, sorta, in a way BUT what's more important than TC, is that someone on the team has the ball in their possession when a TO is requested.

A1 swings the ball from the left wing to A2 on the right wing. Coach/player requests TO while the pass is in the air.
Is there TC? Yes
Should we grant the TO? No

BTW, dashes (-) relate to rules & dots (.) relate to casebook plays.