Stay out of my pond!

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Tell me then what the lead should have been covering if not what he called....remembering that there were 0 players in his area at the time of the foul (with one soft matchup just entering from C's area) with the cut having just come from his area while the C had 1 pair of players fully in his area, 1 pair leaving, and another two defenders and one offensive player closer to him than the point of the foul.

It certainly wasn't a typical half-court set with the positioning of the players as they were...it was a mid-court thrown-in....resembling transistion play where the leads area extends a little higher until the players drop down into the lane and the T and C settle into a typical FC position.

Camron, stop trying to make so much sense. Sense doesn't work with some people. By the way, I wish I could work with more people like you and IUGrad.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Tell me then what the lead should have been covering if not what he called....remembering that there were 0 players in his area at the time of the foul (with one soft matchup just entering from C's area) with the cut having just come from his area while the C had 1 pair of players fully in his area, 1 pair leaving, and another two defenders and one offensive player closer to him than the point of the foul.

Which one was it, "0" players or two players? If I recall one of your fellow, "there was contact" brothers said there were two players earlier. There were two players standing dead in the Lead's area. The two players (the one that fell and the player trailing) came from the middle of the court around the circle. There was a screen that was in the circle to try to free the Kansas player that fell. All that action is easily what the C is watching. Not to say the Lead could not have seen the screen, but he had two players that might have come to the basket either to defend or catch a pass.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It certainly wasn't a typical half-court set with the positioning of the players as they were...it was a mid-court thrown-in....resembling transistion play where the leads area extends a little higher until the players drop down into the lane and the T and C settle into a typical FC position.

It wasn't? Ball in the half court. Trail in the half court in-bounding the ball, all players in the half court, sounds pretty typical to me. Now during a throw-in I have no problem if the Lead extends their coverage, but that was not an in-between play. That was a play that took place outside of the 3 point line and concluded way in the Trail's area with no one covering the thrower.

You have to do a little better than that if you think you are going to change my mind. It is not happening. I have seen the play enough to try to see why the Lead could have called this. I saw nothing other than an iffy play that the Trail passed on.

Peace

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by refguy

Camron, stop trying to make so much sense. Sense doesn't work with some people. By the way, I wish I could work with more people like you and IUGrad.

That'll be nice to see when you each start calling fouls and violations in each other's primary area.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

That'll be nice to see when you each start calling fouls and violations in each other's primary area.

Peace

[refguy]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

That'll be nice to see when you each start calling fouls and violations in each others primary area.

Questions for any and all: Post player travels in front of the Lead. Whose primary is it?
Post player holds the ball for 5 seconds. Whose primary is it?
Post player turns away from lead to the middle and gets fouled. Whose primary is it?
Player gets fouled in transition on trail's sideline halfway between trail and lead.
Whose primary is it?
Player pulls up for 3 in transition at the FT line extended trail side. Whose primary is it?
Right handed player pulls up for a jumper on the left elbow (weak side)and gets hit on his shooting arm. Whose primary is it?

Anybody besides Jeff?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by refguy

Questions for any and all: Post player travels in front of the Lead. Whose primary is it?

It depends. Where is the player? How many bodies are in the area?

Originally Posted by refguy

Post player holds the ball for 5 seconds. Whose primary is it?

College the Lead does not count closely guarded. Same goes for my state, but apparently that is OK in NF.

Originally Posted by refguy

Post player turns away from lead to the middle and gets fouled. Whose primary is it?

Center has some coverage, so does the Trail. Depends on where the ball is located.

Originally Posted by refguy

Player gets fouled in transition on trail's sideline halfway between trail and lead.
Whose primary is it?

There is no primary coverage in transition.

Originally Posted by refguy

Player pulls up for 3 in transition at the FT line extended trail side. Whose primary is it?

There is no primary coverage in transition. All three officials might have some coverage. Likely the Center or the Trail would be on this play.

Originally Posted by refguy

Right handed player pulls up for a jumper on the left elbow (weak side)and gets hit on his shooting arm. Whose primary is it?

The center. Are you suggesting the Center cannot see this play?

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by refguy

Questions for any and all: Post player travels in front of the Lead. Whose primary is it?

I know whose primary it is, but I also know it is easier for one of the other spots to see a travel in the post than it is for the lead.

[canuckrefguy]

[refguy]

Anyone besides Jeff care to answer those scenarios?
You just agreed that there are situations during a game where there are no primary areas, and where the diagram in the book is irrelevant to who should blow the whistle. And just because you have a player or two in your primary according to the book doesn't mean that's where you should officiate. Officiate the closest competitive match-up not the wood or players that are just standing there picking their nose. I would hope as an instructor you are teaching this? BTW. those 2 players that may have been in the L's primary weak side were good examples of nose pickers.

Originally Posted by refguy

Anyone besides Jeff care to answer those scenarios?

It's tough to answer your situations because there are no absolutes or always in officiating. PCAs/diagrams are meant to serve as a guideline, but I'm learning that the main thing is about open looks.
Sometimes the official with the best open look isn't the one who should be making the call... we must decide whether going to get it or passing will help THE GAME.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by refguy

[B] BTW. those 2 players that may have been in the L's primary weak side were good examples of nose pickers.

What if those two guys get there elbows up while going for the gold?

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

It's tough to answer your situations because there are no absolutes or always in officiating. PCAs/diagrams are meant to serve as a guideline, but I'm learning that the main thing is about open looks.
Sometimes the official with the best open look isn't the one who should be making the call... we must decide whether going to get it or passing will help THE GAME.

Care to elaborate? You state that the main thing is to get an open look, and then follow up by saying whoever has the best look shouldn't make the call? Like maybe the C calling a rebound foul on weak side block when both L and T are stacked? Or C officiating the help side defender on a baseline drive in front of the Lead?
Players dictate where we should be looking - not the book. The book serves as a great starting point.

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

It's tough to answer your situations because there are no absolutes or always in officiating. PCAs/diagrams are meant to serve as a guideline, but I'm learning that the main thing is about open looks.
Sometimes the official with the best open look isn't the one who should be making the call... we must decide whether going to get it or passing will help THE GAME.

What do you mean?

Originally Posted by refguy

Care to elaborate? You state that the main thing is to get an open look, and then follow up by saying whoever has the best look shouldn't make the call?

Did I say that??
"Sometimes the official with the best open look isn't the one who should be making the call"
It just depends...

Originally Posted by refguy

Like maybe the C calling a rebound foul on weak side block when both L and T are stacked?

I would hope the C is weak side in most cases and the L probably shouldn't be making that call anyway.

Originally Posted by refguy

Or C officiating the help side defender on a baseline drive in front of the Lead?

Great teamwork!

Originally Posted by refguy

Players dictate where we should be looking - not the book. The book serves as a great starting point.

We agree, but there are so many factors when determining if reaching out is worth it & then there is also the timing.

I believe if you reach, the whistle should be a little late, Give the official who is supposed to make the call an opportunity to make it. Maybe he/she was being patient on the contact.

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by refguy

Anyone besides Jeff care to answer those scenarios?

Still trying to find somebody that will agree with your nonsense?

Why don't you put down something like:
"Do not respond unless you also think that officials should watch for phantom fouls all all the court!"
or--
"Do not respond if you understand why the court is divided into "primary zones."
or--
"Do not respond unless you agree with me."

Does that cover everything that you're looking for?

Good luck with that.

Maybe you can try another forum? One where there's fanboys who don't understand officiating and will agree with you.