Held ball- T - arrow?

[zeedonk]

Just remembered a play that I am not 100% on so here ya go-

8th grade girls. I am trail in 2 ref game. I got a held ball in front of me. Whistle stops play, and A1 continues her tugging for the ball motion, B1 (on the other side of the ball) loses her balance and A1 pushes the ball and B1 to the ground. Tweet- T for A1 (I deemed it not flagrant, so no ejection).

We shoot the foul shots and I give the ball to Team B at the division line for a throw in and keep the arrow where it was. The T cancels the AP, right?

Z

[mick]

Originally Posted by zeedonk

Just remembered a play that I am not 100% on so here ya go-

8th grade girls. I am trail in 2 ref game. I got a held ball in front of me. Whistle stops play, and A1 continues her tugging for the ball motion, B1 (on the other side of the ball) loses her balance and A1 pushes the ball and B1 to the ground. Tweet- T for A1 (I deemed it not flagrant, so no ejection).

We shoot the foul shots and I give the ball to Team B at the division line for a throw in and keep the arrow where it was. The T cancels the AP, right?

Z

With the Technical foul, you are correct to not use the arrow.

Athough the play was a *Had-to-be-there*, as long as B1 wasn't hurt to badly, I may have stepped in and sternly reminded the players to stop on the whistle.

-or-

I may have double whacked the players for not stopping on the whistle, without a warning.

[zeedonk]

Originally Posted by mick

With the Technical foul, you are correct to not use the arrow.

Athough the play was a *Had-to-be-there*, as long as B1 wasn't hurt to badly, I may have stepped in and sternly reminded the players to stop on the whistle.

It was absolutely a HTBT play- B1 wasn't hurt at all, I gave the T because it was basically a foul on a dead ball, and I didn't particularly care for the manner in which it occured (A1 pushing ball and B1 down- an attitude thing) but in the end, it wasn't flagrant, hence only a T and not an ejection.

[mick]

Originally Posted by zeedonk

It was absolutely a HTBT play- B1 wasn't hurt at all, I gave the T because it was basically a foul on a dead ball, and I didn't particularly care for the manner in which it occured (A1 pushing ball and B1 down- an attitude thing) but in the end, it wasn't flagrant, hence only a T and not an ejection.

You felt it was unsporting.
You whacked her.
And the lesson was given.
That works.

[Texas Aggie]

I've had this a bunch in girls games. The problem with penalizing it is that you are essentially penalizing one girl for being stronger than the other, or for one not losing her balance while the other one did. While all situations are potentially different, USUALLY, both girls are still holding onto the ball. I tell them in our pregame, "if you hear the whistle, let go of the ball." If they don't and they get body slammed, well, maybe next time they'll let go.

Without something more -- like physical contact or taunting afterwards -- I'm not sure how you can make a T call on this play. I agree that certain situations could (possibly including the OP), but with nothing more than 4 hands on the ball and neither letting go, I've got nothing. I do, however, get in there and sternly warn them to keep themselves under control, hopefully preventing this the next time.

[bradfordwilkins]

Clarification question --

Does the jump ball call make the AP arrow change... followed by the technical voiding the possession.

IE Possession arrow points to Home, jump ball. Technical foul on Home player.

Do visitors get both ball and possession arrow in their favor?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins

Clarification question --

Does the jump ball call make the AP arrow change... followed by the technical voiding the possession.

IE Possession arrow points to Home, jump ball. Technical foul on Home player.

Do visitors get both ball and possession arrow in their favor?

No, the arrow would not change. So, V would shoot 2 shots, and have the division line throw-in. The arrow would stay pointed in H's favour.

The arrow is reversed when the throw-in ends.

When does a throw-in end? Thanks for asking!

A throw-in ends when:

• the inbounds pass is legally touched inbounds, OR
• the throwing-in team violates

[bradfordwilkins]

Thanks!

[mick]

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins

Clarification question --

Does the jump ball call make the AP arrow change... followed by the technical voiding the possession.

IE Possession arrow points to Home, jump ball. Technical foul on Home player.

Do visitors get both ball and possession arrow in their favor?

bradfordwilkins,
We use the arrow when we don't know who is supposed to get the ball next.
Following a Technical foul, part of the penalty is getting the ball for a throw-in. So in that case, we do know who gets the ball, ... thus we don't have to use the arrow at all.
We ignore it. We leave it alone. We don't need it.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

No, the arrow would not change. So, V would shoot 2 shots, and have the division line throw-in. The arrow would stay pointed in H's favour.

The arrow is reversed when the throw-in ends.

When does a throw-in end? Thanks for asking!

A throw-in ends when:

• the inbounds pass is legally touched inbounds, OR
• the throwing-in team violates

I had this tonight on an AP throw-in where the ball was kicked by the defense. A1 released it, B1 kicked it and it went out of bounds. I look at the table and the arrow had already been switched. I told them to switch it back and don't change it. Of course at the next held ball, Team B's fans were going nuts: "They got the last one! It's ours!"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I had this tonight on an AP throw-in where the ball was kicked by the defense. A1 released it, B1 kicked it and it went out of bounds. I look at the table and the arrow had already been switched. I told them to switch it back and don't change it. Of course at the next held ball, Team B's fans were going nuts: "They got the last one! It's ours!"

zm1283: Good catch. I had the same situation in a game last month. My rookie, unlicensed, probationary, partner caught it. Kudos to our training committee.