held ball?

[just another ref]

I know this has been discussed before, but I have slept since then, so........Boys varsity, A1 headed up the court against heavy pressure. He loses his footing while dribbling, and falls on the ball, which rolls between his feet. B1 grabs the ball in both hands, A1 clamps his feet together around the ball, and it is definitely, very briefly, held firmly by both players. I whistled a held ball and wouldn't have thought much about it, but B coach, as coaches will do, disagreed. "That ain't right! He can't have possession with his feet!" Definition backs him up: "Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball...." BUT, I'm sure I have called held ball many times when one player actually had the ball under his arm or somewhere other than "firmly in his hands" so what is the deal here?

[johnnyrao]

I don't have my rule book with me but couldn't you consider this a kick ball violation on A1 for intentionally striking the ball with his feet? I don't think the rule book specifically states that the ball has to be kicked it says a player may not intentionally strike the ball with the leg. Could this be a violation?

I have to admit, though, that I had to think about this for a while. In a game, on the spot, I probably would call a held ball.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by johnnyrao
I don't have my rule book with me but couldn't you consider this a kick ball violation on A1 for intentionally striking the ball with his feet? I don't think the rule book specifically states that the ball has to be kicked it says a player may not intentionally strike the ball with the leg. Could this be a violation?

Thought about that, but he never "struck" the ball with anything, but just kinda fell on it, like recovering a fumble.

[dpk933]

Ihad a similar play during a christmas tourney. I called a jump ball.

[Nevadaref]

NFHS:
1. This is NOT a held ball. As you wrote it doesn't meet the definition. Please don't make this wrong call in the future.

2. If the player purposely moves his legs or feet to trap the ball, a kicked ball violation is the proper call.

3. If the player simply falls over the ball and the ball gets caught between his legs without him attempting to do so intentionally, then you simply have nothing to call and allow the game to continue.

[cdaref]

I can hear the fans now: "TRAVEL!"

[dpk933]

Thank you for the clarification. Won't happen again.

[bob jenkins]

The NCAA rule book has a specific AR on this -- "kicked" ball.

I'd apply the same in a FED game.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by just another ref
Thought about that, but he never "struck" the ball with anything, but just kinda fell on it, like recovering a fumble.

If he was keeping the ball from B1 by using his feet, then he must have struck it, however gently, at some point. At least, I'd call it that way.

[just another ref]

The ball was trapped between A1's feet, and when his opponent grabbed the ball he instinctively held on tighter as best he could. Had it been a teammate picking up the ball, I'm sure a kick would have never entered anyone's mind. If held ball is totally out of the question, I have a no call.

[blindzebra]

RULE 4 SECTION 25 HELD BALL
A held ball occurs when:

ART. 1 . . . Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.
ART. 2 . . . An opponent places his/her hand(s) on the ball and prevents an airborne player from throwing the ball or releasing it on a try.


RULE 4 SECTION 29 KICKING THE BALL

Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg or foot.

The parts in bold hold the key.