The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 08:04pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
I know this has been discussed before, but I have slept since then, so........Boys varsity, A1 headed up the court against heavy pressure. He loses his footing while dribbling, and falls on the ball, which rolls between his feet. B1 grabs the ball in both hands, A1 clamps his feet together around the ball, and it is definitely, very briefly, held firmly by both players. I whistled a held ball and wouldn't have thought much about it, but B coach, as coaches will do, disagreed. "That ain't right! He can't have possession with his feet!" Definition backs him up: "Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball...." BUT, I'm sure I have called held ball many times when one player actually had the ball under his arm or somewhere other than "firmly in his hands" so what is the deal here?
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 08:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wherever the Army sends me this year
Posts: 267
I don't have my rule book with me but couldn't you consider this a kick ball violation on A1 for intentionally striking the ball with his feet? I don't think the rule book specifically states that the ball has to be kicked it says a player may not intentionally strike the ball with the leg. Could this be a violation?

I have to admit, though, that I had to think about this for a while. In a game, on the spot, I probably would call a held ball.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 09:49pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally posted by johnnyrao
I don't have my rule book with me but couldn't you consider this a kick ball violation on A1 for intentionally striking the ball with his feet? I don't think the rule book specifically states that the ball has to be kicked it says a player may not intentionally strike the ball with the leg. Could this be a violation?

Thought about that, but he never "struck" the ball with anything, but just kinda fell on it, like recovering a fumble.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 14, 2006, 10:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10
Ihad a similar play during a christmas tourney. I called a jump ball.

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 03:03am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,789
NFHS:
1. This is NOT a held ball. As you wrote it doesn't meet the definition. Please don't make this wrong call in the future.

2. If the player purposely moves his legs or feet to trap the ball, a kicked ball violation is the proper call.

3. If the player simply falls over the ball and the ball gets caught between his legs without him attempting to do so intentionally, then you simply have nothing to call and allow the game to continue.

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 04:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 151
I can hear the fans now: "TRAVEL!"
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 10:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10
Thank you for the clarification. Won't happen again.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 11:19am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,448
The NCAA rule book has a specific AR on this -- "kicked" ball.

I'd apply the same in a FED game.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 02:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
Thought about that, but he never "struck" the ball with anything, but just kinda fell on it, like recovering a fumble.
If he was keeping the ball from B1 by using his feet, then he must have struck it, however gently, at some point. At least, I'd call it that way.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 02:48pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
The ball was trapped between A1's feet, and when his opponent grabbed the ball he instinctively held on tighter as best he could. Had it been a teammate picking up the ball, I'm sure a kick would have never entered anyone's mind. If held ball is totally out of the question, I have a no call.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 03:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,674
RULE 4 SECTION 25 HELD BALL
A held ball occurs when:

ART. 1 . . . Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.
ART. 2 . . . An opponent places his/her hand(s) on the ball and prevents an airborne player from throwing the ball or releasing it on a try.


RULE 4 SECTION 29 KICKING THE BALL

Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg or foot.

The parts in bold hold the key.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:17am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1