Block/Charge call results in Floyd being ejected

[IREFU2]

Okay, here is my 2 cents:

Lead - he did not have the best look at this play. I paused it right at the contact and the lead was looking at the back of the white defensive player. He was pinching the paint.

C - he had the best look at the play, looking between both the players and he "should" of had the fist crack at this play.

Now as i play the video back and forthe, right at the contact. Look at the C's left arm, it "appears" that he was going to call a block, but saw the lead punch it. This is why I dont give the appearence of any prelims from the outside. Replay the video and you make the desicion if there was the appearence of a prelim......

[Adam]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Okay, here is my 2 cents:

Lead - he did not have the best look at this play. I paused it right at the contact and the lead was looking at the back of the white defensive player. He was pinching the paint.

C - he had the best look at the play, looking between both the players and he "should" of had the fist crack at this play.

Now as i play the video back and forthe, right at the contact. Look at the C's left arm, it "appears" that he was going to call a block, but saw the lead punch it. This is why I dont give the appearence of any prelims from the outside. Replay the video and you make the desicion if there was the appearence of a prelim......

I replayed it, and I didn't see anything. His right arm never started to come down, and I've never seen a college ref make a block signal with one arm.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I also agree that Floyd is a punk.

You're only saying that because he took it the Hawks every year when he was at the good school.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Ben,

I don't see how the L had the best look at the secondary defender when there was already a another defender directly in front of the lead.

there was nothing in front of the lead! he pinched down and had the best look of lateral movement of both defenders that were near the play. In reference to block/charge plays you don't need to see between the players, you need to be able to see the lateral movement of the defender, and that can best be seen by the Lead, with the C having a pretty good look at it as well.

[doubleringer]

All right, I took time to watch it. I was a huge Floyd fan when he was at ISU and like the way his college teams play. I'd love to side with him on this, but I can't. It looked like a tough call and there really isn't anything he should have blown up about like that. There may be some history between he and the lead or something. Who knows?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

In reference to block/charge plays you don't need to see between the players, you need to be able to see the lateral movement of the defender, and that can best be seen by the Lead, with the C having a pretty good look at it as well.

I don't know if I agree with that but I'm pretty sure I know why you have that opinion. Had a play in camp this summer in which I was the Lead on a fast break. Crash was just above the opposite block but all I could see was the defender's back from my 'pinched down' position. I had no whistle and the 'C' took the play and called a PC. NBA ref/college supervisor told his observer I should have had a whistle. Observer (big dawg D1 official) disagreed with his boss and said I rightfully let the C take it b/c I was straight-lined and the play was on the opposite side of the paint.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

You're only saying that because he took it the Hawks every year when he was at the good school.

Nah, I'm saying that because his protoge did the same thing with ISU after Floyd was "coaching" the Bulls. Remember Michigan State?

BTW, I figured this one would bring you out of hiding.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nah, I'm saying that because his protoge did the same thing with ISU after Floyd was "coaching" the Bulls. Remember Michigan State?

BTW, I figured this one would bring you out of hiding.

Of course this one gets me around. I do not remember Michigan State. That game never happened. If the game that never happened is replayed on ESPN Classic, I turn off the tv. Why watch a game that never happened.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't know if I agree with that but I'm pretty I know why you have that opinion. Had a play in camp this summer in which I was the Lead on a fast break. Crash was just above the opposite block but all I could see was the defender's back from my 'pinched down' position. I had no whistle and the 'C' took the play and called a PC. NBA ref/college supervisor told his observer I should have had a whistle. Observer (big dawg D1 official) disagreed with his boss and said I rightfully let the C take it b/c I was straight-lined and the play was on the opposite side of the paint.

if it is above the block and almost outside the paint on the opposite side then i am ok with it, but lane line drives or drives right down the middle of the plane is absolutely the L's play and imo the right guy took the play but didn't get it right, oh well. Whack! and dump him! haha

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

there was nothing in front of the lead! he pinched down and had the best look of lateral movement of both defenders that were near the play. In reference to block/charge plays you don't need to see between the players, you need to be able to see the lateral movement of the defender, and that can best be seen by the Lead, with the C having a pretty good look at it as well.

So you are saying the looking at the players numbers on the back give you a better look then looking between them??? You will get a lot of plays wrong that way...

[jeffpea]

everyone can have their own opinion about whether it was a charge or a block - that's fine. what really shouldn't be in doubt is who had the responsibility to make the call.

the philosophy has evolved over the last 1-2 seasons that the Lead should make the calls on drives coming toward the basket (particularly on block/charges). the point was really drilled home to me from several D1 conf. assignors this summer in their respective camps.

apparently, several years ago their were too many blarges called during D1 men's games and the idea developed that if you have the Lead make the call - and be responsible for making the call - that will eliminate the potential for blarge situations.

therefore, block/charge plays outside the lane on C's side will remain C's call; but for clarity sake, plays in the lane (both during and after transition) should be called by Lead.

this makes it vitally important that Lead rotate and get ball side when a skip-pass/ball reversal happens in half-court play to eliminate confusion. if Lead gets there BEFORE the drive starts, you'll avoid this potential blarge situation.

in this USC vs ASU play, the ball came right down the middle of the lane on a drive that started from strong-side....it was Leads call and "if" Center has a whistle, then he better "blow and hold"......

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

So you are saying the looking at the players numbers on the back give you a better look then looking between them??? You will get a lot of plays wrong that way...

you're thinking in terms of when you actually need to see between players, i.e., shove offs, handchecks, hit on arm, etc. This is not the case in block/charge situations. Like i said earlier, in block/charge situations you need to be able to see the lateral movement of the defender on drives to the hoop.

I'm just asking you to think about it? What is more important on a block/charge play, seeing between the players or recognizing lateral movement of the defensive player?


I agree you could get a lot of plays wrong if you blew every play when you were looking at the player's numbers, but a block charge play is not one of them.

I always think like this:

If i am the best official in position to referee lateral movement of the defender then i blow the whistle, if i am not then i withold, whereas with any other type play if i can't see in between the players or obviously see the contact i hold the whistle as well.

[dahoopref]

The Pac-10 decides not to suspend Floyd. Unbelievable.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw...,7258277.story

USC's Tim Floyd, Daniel Hackett avoid Pac-10 penalty

By Chris Foster
6:57 PM PST, February 17, 2009

USC Coach Tim Floyd and guard Daniel Hackett were not reprimanded by the Pacific 10 Conference for actions and comments during and after the Trojans' loss to Arizona State on Sunday.

"The conference will take no public action," said Dave Hirsch, the Pac-10's assistant commissioner.

A source, who wished to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak about the issue, said conference officials did not issue a private admonishment.

Floyd was ejected during the final minute of the Sun Devils' 65-53 victory after an animated protest of a charging call on Hackett, who collided with Jamelle McMillan while banking in a shot. Pac-10 officials said Monday that charging was the only call made, but players from both teams had said one referee called blocking and said "and one." That would have given Hackett a free throw and a chance to cut the deficit to three points with 54 seconds left.

After the charging call was made, an agitated Floyd burst onto the court and received two technical fouls. Hackett, after the game, criticized referee Dave Hall, who called the charge. "It was not the first time we have had some issues there," Hackett said, adding that players refer to him as "no-call Hall."

The history between Hall and the Trojans includes Hall's ejection of Floyd from a game at Washington State last season. He also ejected forward Leonard Washington this season for hitting Oklahoma forward Blake Griffin.

Floyd had repeatedly said that, per conference rules, he could not comment about the officiating, but did so in a way that indicated his anger at the call. He said Tuesday he had no regrets about his on-court tirade.

"We don't have the ability to speak at the end of the game and, really, no voice other than filling out a report," Floyd said. "Without being able to state, through your actions, your displeasure, we have no recourse. It's always been a part of game. I'm not the first coach in this league to be thrown out in game, nor in the country. I chose to express myself with the way I felt fit the situation at the time."

Whether the call cost the Trojans a chance to win is open to debate. They would have trailed by three even if Hackett had made the free throw and they rank last in the conference in three-point field-goal percentage.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

The Pac-10 decides not to suspend Floyd. Unbelievable.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw...,7258277.story

USC's Tim Floyd, Daniel Hackett avoid Pac-10 penalty

By Chris Foster
6:57 PM PST, February 17, 2009

USC Coach Tim Floyd and guard Daniel Hackett were not reprimanded by the Pacific 10 Conference for actions and comments during and after the Trojans' loss to Arizona State on Sunday.

"The conference will take no public action," said Dave Hirsch, the Pac-10's assistant commissioner.

A source, who wished to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak about the issue, said conference officials did not issue a private admonishment.

Floyd was ejected during the final minute of the Sun Devils' 65-53 victory after an animated protest of a charging call on Hackett, who collided with Jamelle McMillan while banking in a shot. Pac-10 officials said Monday that charging was the only call made, but players from both teams had said one referee called blocking and said "and one." That would have given Hackett a free throw and a chance to cut the deficit to three points with 54 seconds left.

After the charging call was made, an agitated Floyd burst onto the court and received two technical fouls. Hackett, after the game, criticized referee Dave Hall, who called the charge. "It was not the first time we have had some issues there," Hackett said, adding that players refer to him as "no-call Hall."

The history between Hall and the Trojans includes Hall's ejection of Floyd from a game at Washington State last season. He also ejected forward Leonard Washington this season for hitting Oklahoma forward Blake Griffin.

Floyd had repeatedly said that, per conference rules, he could not comment about the officiating, but did so in a way that indicated his anger at the call. He said Tuesday he had no regrets about his on-court tirade.

"We don't have the ability to speak at the end of the game and, really, no voice other than filling out a report," Floyd said. "Without being able to state, through your actions, your displeasure, we have no recourse. It's always been a part of game. I'm not the first coach in this league to be thrown out in game, nor in the country. I chose to express myself with the way I felt fit the situation at the time."

Whether the call cost the Trojans a chance to win is open to debate. They would have trailed by three even if Hackett had made the free throw and they rank last in the conference in three-point field-goal percentage.

Seeing that Griffin got punched in the nuts, I'd say that one was warranted. The ejection at Washington State doesn't surprise me either, seeing how Floyd acted against ASU.

[grunewar]

Floyd has absolutely no remorse for his actions and sees nothing wrong with what he did! Yikes!

Way to set a good example coach!