Block/Charge call results in Floyd being ejected

[eyezen]

Investigating further...

Found this article from the LA Times

While the author does get in the normal cheap shots on the officials, he does put the onerous rightfully on Floyd.

Watching the interview, I'm wondering what game was he watching? He's basing his whole tirade on the fact that McCall signaled a blocked and an 'and 1'. I guess that's why he went after him and not the Lead. I've watched the play over and over again, and it's a textbook way to AVOID a blarge. At no time am I seeing anything resembling a "block and count it" signal. What am I missing here?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The L anticipated the call. He's two steps onto the floor before the defender even hits the ground. I don't agree with the charge. Defender is still sliding in front of him when contact is made.

Even so, Floyd's an idiot. The Pac-10 needs to sit him down a game.

I saw the same thing you did. Additionally the Lead was not in a great position to see the secondary defender. The C had the best look at this play but did a great job withholding his preliminary.

At worst it was a missed call. Don't see why Floyd exploded like he did.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Tim Floyd is an IDIOT!

A charging foul was the correct call. Who had the primary call is difficult one because the drive started in the T's primary, the secondary defender, who drew the charge, moved into a LGP from the C's primary, and the foul occured right smack in the geometric center of the free throw lane.

Based upon the location of the other players on the court I doubt if the T could see the secondary defender move into a LGP and therefore should not have a whistle on this play. The play has to be covered by the C and the L, and I really do not see how anything but a charge could be called by either the C or the L. The C never signaled what type of foul, but as an evaluator, I would want the C to make the final call on this play and not the L.

MTD, Sr.

[buckrog64]

I agree that Floyd needs to learn to keep his cool. He does his team no good by being sent to the locker room and the refs sure didn't waste any time bouncing his sorry behind. This call may have been the proverbial straw in Floyd's mind; we don't see what all happened up to this point. That being said, a good coach needs to keep his cool. Blowing up like that is no help at all.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

I agree that Floyd needs to learn to keep his cool. He does his team no good by being sent to the locker room and the refs sure didn't waste any time bouncing his sorry behind. This call may have been the proverbial straw in Floyd's mind; we don't see what all happened up to this point. That being said, a good coach needs to keep his cool. Blowing up like that is no help at all.

The problem is, this was at worst a missed close call. Floyd seems insistent that the C called (not "was going to call," but "called') a block. Even if he was right, best case scenario for him is a double foul, for which his only benefit would be a throwin and one more team foul for his opponent. But the C did not call a block. C had his fist up, that was it.

[JRutledge]

I have a PC foul. It looks like the contact took place before/as the player was going airborne. I have no problem with the call and the ball handler had no where to go. I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the defender in this situation.

Peace

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Is sliding laterally against the rules when the player isn't airborne?

yes it is illegal if he has yet to establish guarding position and then come in sliding and didn't beat the offensive player to the spot.

Badnewsref,

I would disagree with you in the mechanics of this play. The lead has the best look at the secondary defender and can better assess the lateral movement of the defender than the slot, although i still believe the referee got the play wrong.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

yes it is illegal if he has yet to establish guarding position and then come in sliding and didn't beat the offensive player to the spot.

I guess we're seeing different things, then, because the defender definitely faced the offensive player with both feet on the ground (establishing LGP) and IMO definitely beat the offensive player to the spot.

[fiasco]

LOL

The guard who fouled on the play had this to say:

"He's a great basketball coach, and he had all the right to do that. I thought it was a bogus call, he thought it was a bogus call, a lot of people thought the same."

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The L anticipated the call. He's two steps onto the floor before the defender even hits the ground. I don't agree with the charge. Defender is still sliding in front of him when contact is made.

Even so, Floyd's an idiot. The Pac-10 needs to sit him down a game.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

yes it is illegal if he has yet to establish guarding position and then come in sliding and didn't beat the offensive player to the spot.

Badnewsref,

I would disagree with you in the mechanics of this play. The lead has the best look at the secondary defender and can better assess the lateral movement of the defender than the slot, although i still believe the referee got the play wrong.

I tend to agree with both of your assessments of the play. An argument can be made for a PC foul as well but I think it was a block.

This is why I enjoy coming on this forum and discuss plays and philosophies with other officials.

A few of my other colleagues saw the play last night and we discussed the entire dichotomy of it all (please bare with me).

Here is another view of the incident from a different angle:

http://palestra.net/videos/play/21409

Officials in the Pac10 are given a rating by the coaches (right or wrong whether they should do this is entirely for another discussion). Through a reliable source, the coaches rating is about 30-40% of the conference ranking of the official. That is a huge chunk of an official's grade. The higher the grade, the more games you get (ie: more money). Officials do not want to be marked down and to me, they let Floyd get away with too much even prior to the block/charge play. Floyd was out of the coaching box multiple times during the game and it was not addressed. It was obvious the officials were trying to appease Floyd rather than deal with him. If you address Floyd, he will mark you down.

It also appeared to me that David Hall did not do enough to protect Randy Mcall from Floyd. As the "R" on the game, he should never had let Floyd even get close to Mcall when he was at halfcourt in the first place. Mcall issues the 2nd T as Floyd walks away. Mcall made a mistake of going to the table to report the T when Floyd was still yelling at Hall and Dick Cartmell. Hall then goes to the table and leaves Cartmell alone to deal with a yelling Floyd as Mcall tries to walk away. Floyd then walks back to Hall who is at the table. During the tirade, Hall is shown pointing at Mcall not once but TWICE; I don't know what was said but if I saw my partner pointing at me while a coach was yelling, I would be furious. Hall has his hand on Floyd's waist to calm him down in a friendly manner.

In my opinion, Hall should not have done anything or even been near the table until the situation with Floyd was addressed. Cartmell did the best he could to separate Floyd from Mcall but Hall (as the R) should've been right there as well.

To his credit, (right or wrong) Hall made a tough call against USC. It just appeared to me after the call, Hall was doing all he could to keep his high rating.

[jearef]

Great double whistle, great communication between L and C, and great call.

Moron coach.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

The C did not signal a block at any time....if you feel he did, watch the video again....

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You have no idea what the C was going to call; great job by the officials. I also think it's a great charge. Defender was there just in time, before the dribbler went airborne.

It looked to me when I watched it the first time that he started to signal a block, albeit VERY slightly, with his left arm. The announcers (I know they're full of it...you don't have to remind me) also say something about how they thought he started to signal a block.

I'm not defending Floyd at all. He's obviously an idiot. As for the call, I think they got it right after watching several times.

[TheViper]

IMO, Player Control...

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by zm1283

As for the call, I think they got it right after watching several times.

As long as you're not blindly defending the officials, right?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by zm1283

It looked to me when I watched it the first time that he started to signal a block, albeit VERY slightly, with his left arm. The announcers (I know they're full of it...you don't have to remind me) also say something about how they thought he started to signal a block.

I'm not defending Floyd at all. He's obviously an idiot. As for the call, I think they got it right after watching several times.

I never saw him go for his hip. And the signal would be both hands, his fist hand never started to come down.