Shot Clock Backcourt Violation

[Scrapper1]

First of all, you're honestly confusing the heck out of me because in the same post you're talking about the shot clock being at 34 or 31 or 24. I have no idea what you're trying to say in some places.

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

The lead is responsible for the rest with some over lap, you also have the lead stationed at mid court?

The Lead's position is irrelevant to the general question. I said midcourt, because that's generally the new Lead's starting position during a heavy press. But the Lead can sneak a peek at the shot clock from anywhere on the court. That's not really a relevant point to the conversation.

So the lead would have to be looking at - the shot clock and the position of the ball in relation to its position in the back court vs. front court and give up on all the match ups in their area. The clock better be further along than 34 seconds IMO

What does the amount of time on the clock have to do with giving up on matchups? If the pressure near the Lead is so intense that he/she CAN'T sneak a peek at the clock, then he/she shouldn't do it. I won't argue that. But having said that, it's just not that hard to take .2 seconds to look at the clock.

my point is this - If from the lead position YOU make a backcourt violation call at 34 seconds on the shot clock, and as the trail I have a 9 count - we have a problem.

With all due respect, if the shot clock started properly and if team control was established immediately, then if the shot clock shows 24 and your count is at 9, then YOU have a problem. Your count is inaccurate by almost 20%. That's the whole point of getting help from the Lead.

If you make that call from the lead it better be after 12 - 13 seconds to be absolutly sure that there is a violation. We need to trust our partners to be doing their job.

But they're NOT doing their job. That's the entire point of the conversation. The clock is telling somebody that there has been a violation, yet your partner isn't calling it. They're NOT doing their job. So SOMEBODY better do it.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

First of all, you're honestly confusing the heck out of me because in the same post you're talking about the shot clock being at 34 or 31 or 24. I have no idea what you're trying to say in some places.

34 should have read 24 typing error sorry.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The Lead's position is irrelevant to the general question. I said midcourt, because that's generally the new Lead's starting position during a heavy press. But the Lead can sneak a peek at the shot clock from anywhere on the court. That's not really a relevant point to the conversation.

Yes position is a relevant point to any call made by an official on the court. we talk about moving to be in position to make the call all of the time.
if the ball is near the mid-court line with the clock a 24/20 and the lead makes a backourt call from the front court baseline with their partner right with the play, there is a problem and I would believe that most assignors - reviewers will have a problem with the lead making that call with 24/20 seconds on the shot clock

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What does the amount of time on the clock have to do with giving up on matchups? If the pressure near the Lead is so intense that he/she CAN'T sneak a peek at the clock, then he/she shouldn't do it. I won't argue that. But having said that, it's just not that hard to take .2 seconds to look at the clock.

It isn't hard, and most do it all the time, even with intense matchups - but looking at the clock and watching the ball out of your primary to make a 10 second call at almost exactly 10 seconds is the problem.
it gives a horrible impression about the crew.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

With all due respect, if the shot clock started properly and if team control was established immediately, then if the shot clock shows 24 and your count is at 9, then YOU have a problem. Your count is inaccurate by almost 20%. That's the whole point of getting help from the Lead.

I am failrly good with my counts but I use the count, not the clock because the rules say that the official is responsible to
ART. 9 . . . Silently and visibly counting seconds to administer the throw-in (7-6), free-throw (8-4; 9-1-3), backcourt (9-8) and closely-guarded (9-10) rules.
It also says for ten seconds - but 20% on 10 seconds based on what I have seen over the years is pretty good. again the lead making that call at 24 is too close.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

But they're NOT doing their job. That's the entire point of the conversation. The clock is telling somebody that there has been a violation, yet your partner isn't calling it. They're NOT doing their job. So SOMEBODY better do it.

The clock isn't telling anyone anything - noone but the trail official knows when that count started, and if you step in and make that call at 24/20 seconds it is too close.
I am not saying that the lead can not help their partner out on this call - what I am saying is that the lead should not do it at almost exactly 10 seconds, it needs to be blatantly obvious to everyone in the gym that 10 seconds has elapsed and my partner missed it.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

yet your partner isn't calling it. They're NOT doing their job. So SOMEBODY better do it.

just a quick point on this particular comment,
drive to the basket opposite side by A1 who is bumped slightly by B1 (primary defender). the whistle comes in from the trail at mid court table side before the ball leaves A1's hand. Yes it is different in that it is judgement on the contact, but unless B1 is lying on the floor that isn't a call I want to see the trail make from mid-court, and especialy before the ball leaves the shooters hands. If you come that far for a call out of your primary it had better be the 600 lb gorrilla in the room.
Calling a backcourt violation at exactly 10 seconds by the shot clock (right or wrong) as the lead on a play is not a good call IMHO - if you wait until it is 12 seconds then maybe you have to go get it.

[stosh]

In Maryland, the girls play with a shot clock. As a result, there is no 10 second backcourt count and there is no closely gaurded count either in the backcourt. The 30 second shot clock starts when the ball is controlled by a team and ends/is reset when the ball has either gone through the basket, hits the rim on a tap or a try, a foul is committed, there is a turnover, or a violation is committed by the defense (kicked ball being the obvious one).

Sometimes as the trail you get the feeling your not doing anything because you're not "hashing anything off" while the ball is in the backcourt.