Shot Clock Backcourt Violation

[dbking]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Reference please??

Peace

NCAA 4-61 Is the time to shoot during team control
NCAA 2-15-2c When a player has ball at disposal for a throw in ( Team Control def )
NCAA 5-9-4 The game and shot start when ball is legally touched on a throw in

nfhs 4-12-2 There is no team control during a throw in.

I do not have any rule book for a nfhs shot clock. The shot clock on any missed attempt does not start when the ball is deflected during a rebound. It only starts when the ball is in team control and is reset when control is changed or it hits the rim of team in control's basket.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dbking

NCAA 4-61 Is the time to shoot during team control
NCAA 2-15-2c When a player has ball at disposal for a throw in ( Team Control def )

So the shot clock starts when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower? Not quite.

Originally Posted by dbking

NCAA 5-9-4 The game and shot start when ball is legally touched on a throw in

Right, but if the "defense" touches the ball, the "offense" is not in team control at that moment now are they?

Originally Posted by dbking

nfhs 4-12-2 There is no team control during a throw in.

The team control foul in NCAA Rules, is to allow or FTs not to be shot and award a team control foul.

BTW, NCAA 9-10 says:

Section 10. (Men) 10-Second Violation
An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a
ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds.

Originally Posted by dbking

I do not have any rule book for a nfhs shot clock. The shot clock on any missed attempt does not start when the ball is deflected during a rebound. It only starts when the ball is in team control and is reset when control is changed or it hits the rim of team in control's basket.

There are no shot clock rules for the NF. That is not an approved rule.

Peace

[dbking]

The shot clock starts on a throw in when it is legally touched inbounds. It does not have to have an offensive player touch. There is team control. Therefore the shot clock starts on the touch, either offense or defense.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dbking

The shot clock starts on a throw in when it is legally touched inbounds. It does not have to have an offensive player touch. There is team control. Therefore the shot clock starts on the touch, either offense or defense.

I did not say it had to be just the "offensive player that touches" starts the game clock or shot clock. That is your claim. But starting the clock and the starting of the ten second count is not the same thing. And you did not show any rule that suggested the situation was simultaneous.

Peace

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by dbking

The shot clock starts on a throw in when it is legally touched inbounds. It does not have to have an offensive player touch. There is team control. Therefore the shot clock starts on the touch, either offense or defense.

1)Team control is established, is when the shot clock should start for all situations, there is team control on an inbound in NCAA, so the clock starts on the legal touch on the floor of an inbound pass, however, the ten second count does not start until there is established player control by a team in their backcourt. So several seconds may have elapsed off the shot clock before the ball is controlled by the inbounding team in their backcourt so 24 would not be accurate as a guidline or a backcourt violation.

2) No team control on a throw in in NFHS, so the assumption would be that the shot clock would not start until the ball is in someones team control - then the shot clock migt be in sink with the 10 second count. However, the lead shouldn't be watching the ball that closely and make a call at 24.

Someone from California or a federation shotclock state step up and establish the parameters when the clock tarts on an inbound pass.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

1)Team control is established, is when the shot clock should start for all situations, there is team control on an inbound in NCAA, so the clock starts on the legal touch on the floor of an inbound pass, however, the ten second count does not start until there is established player control by a team in their backcourt. So several seconds may have elapsed off the shot clock before the ball is controlled by the inbounding team in their backcourt so 24 would not be accurate as a guidline or a backcourt violation.

.

Why? There is team control and the ball is in the backcourt....the count is on. It doesn't require player control inbounds since team control began during the throwin. The shot clock and the 10 count start the moment the ball is touched and it is a violation when the clock shows 25/24 (depending on the clock).

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why? There is team control and the ball is in the backcourt....the count is on. It doesn't require player control inbounds since team control began during the throwin. The shot clock and the 10 count start the moment the ball is touched and it is a violation when the clock shows 25/24 (depending on the clock).

what Nevada said
the count begins once team control is established inbounds that can not happen until a player from the in bound team gains control in the back court,
the shot clock however started once the ball was touched there is the difference and why 24 is not a good number in this scenario.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why? There is team control and the ball is in the backcourt....the count is on. It doesn't require player control inbounds since team control began during the throwin. The shot clock and the 10 count start the moment the ball is touched and it is a violation when the clock shows 25/24 (depending on the clock).

Because the NCAA rule specifically says "inbounds player."

"An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a
ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds."

The official is not to begin the 10 second count until AN INBOUNDS PLAYER has established control of the ball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Because the NCAA rule specifically says "inbounds player."

"An inbounds player (and his team) shall not be in continuous control of a
ball that is in his back court for 10 consecutive seconds."

The official is not to begin the 10 second count until AN INBOUNDS PLAYER has established control of the ball.

While that may be the wa they want it, that is NOT what the rule says.
The fact that an inbounds player touches the ball that is in team control makes it an inbounds player (and his team) in control.

The INBOUNDS player part is merely to indicate that the count doesn't start until it is touched inbounds even though there is team control during the throwin.