Fumble or self-pass

[dave30]

Offensive player starts to pass the ball. The ball slips from his hand and goes four or five feet away.

Can the player go get the ball or is it travelling?

Is it different if the player dribbled then stopped and tried to pass and lost the ball or if he just caught a pass and then tried to pass and lost the ball?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by dave30

Offensive player starts to pass the ball. The ball slips from his hand and goes four or five feet away.

Can the player go get the ball or is it travelling?

Is it different if the player dribbled then stopped and tried to pass and lost the ball or if he just caught a pass and then tried to pass and lost the ball?

If he has not used his dribble, he can go get it either way. If he has used his dribble you must decide if it is a fumble or a lousy pass. The fumble he may recover. The lousy pass he may not.

[BktBallRef]

Dave, check the definition of a pass in Rule 4. There's no such thing as a self pass.

If he fumbles the ball as he releases the pass, it's just a fumble. He can retrieve it.

If he passes the ball, goes after it and touches it first, he started a dribble. If he's already dribbled, it's a violation.

[dave30]

Thanks. That's what I thought, but my rulebooks were in my car and I knew the answer would be here!

[sallender]

Always remember,

You can fumble - dribble - fumble

but you can never

dribble - fumble - dribble

[Huntin' Ref]

I have seen this happen more and more this season......

A1 tries to make a pass to A2 who "should" be popping out from a down-screen. A2 actually circles across the lane but A1 starts the pass, tries to stop the pass (think "tuck-rule" in football) but it still slips in the direction of the originally intended path. For arguments sake, A1 has already used up their dribble prior to the fumble/pass.

What do you have?

[Adam]

A fumble.

[dbking]

Anyone can pick up a loose ball. You may not be able to dribble it put you can pick it up.

You can not dribble-fumble-dribble but can dribble-fumble-secure control.

There is no rule anywhere in the book that prevents this therefore you can. I have seen in state rules meetings as well.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dbking

Anyone can pick up a loose ball. You may not be able to dribble it put you can pick it up.

Not true.

A1 dribbles, then ends the dribble. A1 passes the ball toward A2, but A2 doesn't see the pass and cuts away. A1 chases after the ball and grabs it.

This is a violation. (I forget now whether it's illegal dribble or traveling, but it doesn't matter.)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I forget now whether it's illegal dribble or traveling.

A little Ginkgo biloba will take care of that problem.

[dave30]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not true.

A1 dribbles, then ends the dribble. A1 passes the ball toward A2, but A2 doesn't see the pass and cuts away. A1 chases after the ball and grabs it.

This is a violation. (I forget now whether it's illegal dribble or traveling, but it doesn't matter.)

I think the key is whether or not it was a pass or losing the ball unintentionally (fumble). Am I right? That would make it a judgement call as to whether we think it was a pass or a fumble.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1 dribbles, then ends the dribble. A1 passes the ball toward A2, but A2 doesn't see the pass and cuts away. A1 chases after the ball and grabs it.

This is a violation. (I forget now whether it's illegal dribble or traveling, but it doesn't matter.)

It's an illegal second dribble.

The case book play that someone at the NFHS incorrectly changed from an illegal dribble to a travel is the one in which the player tosses the ball over an opponent's head and then runs around him and catches it before allowing it to strike the floor.

Originally Posted by dave30

I think the key is whether or not it was a pass or losing the ball unintentionally (fumble). Am I right? That would make it a judgement call as to whether we think it was a pass or a fumble.

Yep, that's the key.

[Huntin' Ref]

Originally Posted by dave30

I think the key is whether or not it was a pass or losing the ball unintentionally (fumble). Am I right? That would make it a judgement call as to whether we think it was a pass or a fumble.

That is the scenerio I was talking about..... kids are getting good at "faking" things......

[Da Official]

Great discussion guys! This cleared up questions I had about this scenario. Thanks!