Forward Pass vs. Fumble

[BoomerSooner]

First of all I'm a basketball official that has read the football rule-book, but by no means consider myself an expert, so take all the shots you want on anything I may misinterpret. Just looking to be educated.

Anyway, I'm going to use some generalities and relate them to the Reggie Bush play that many are contending was a forward pass.

First, a QB throwing a pass with a forward arm motion is hit and the ball comes out directly to the ground but forward. Ruling is Incomplete Pass.

Second, a QB with receiver 5 yards downfield uses a non-forward arm motion (i.e. underhand or shovel pass type motion) and the ball hits the ground. Ruling is Incomplete Pass.

Third, same as 2, however this time QB is violently yet legally hit as he tries this pass. Obviously without seeing my example it is tough to make a ruling, but one can see that it would be a difficult ruling to make, and this could be argued either way.

One official may say the hit caused the ball to come lose and regardless of the direction it is a fumble, while others may say that the QB intended to make a pass. A third arguement (not sure how this is handled) might be that since the QB didn't use a standard forward arm motion he isn't protected by that rule.

As it relates to R. Bush it could be argued that the hit caused the ball to come out (even if he did intend to lateral it regardless of direction). There was at least 1 Texas player making a play on Bush, and if memory serves another was joining in on the hit. Also it must be considered whether or not the hit caused the ball to go forward.

Just my way of looking at it, I know this is much to think about in the time span the game officials had, and probably not even worthy of discussion, but maybe just maybe, I've got something here.

Originally posted by BoomerSooner
As it relates to R. Bush it could be argued that the hit caused the ball to come out (even if he did intend to lateral it regardless of direction). There was at least 1 Texas player making a play on Bush, and if memory serves another was joining in on the hit. Also it must be considered whether or not the hit caused the ball to go forward.

Well, in the NFHS rules any pass that goes toward an opponents goal line in a forward pass, no matter how the passer threw it.

I have the R. Bush play on DVD. I have watched angle and froze it. The pitch Reggie made was backwards without a doubt in my mind. It went backwards falling to the ground almost a whole yard back from were it was thrown from. I think the confusing part is that everybody is moving forward quickly giving the effect that it looked forward. If the pass was thrown forward #84 would have caught the ball and probably scored on the play.

[BktBallRef]

First, the pass was a deliberate act. It was NOT a fumble.

Second, it makes no difference whether the contact caused the pass to go forward or not, it would still be an illegal forward pass, since he's beyond the NZ.

Third, in a situation like that, it's very unlikely that there's going to be an official parallel to Bush to make a determintaion on such a pass. Absnet 100% assurance that it's forward, you aren't going to see a flag on that play. And I don't blame them, I wouldn't guess at it either.

[JasonTX]

By NCAA rules when a player is contacted in a way that causes the ball to come loose will be an incomplete pass if that players arm had started forward to pass the ball. It makes no difference if the ball subsequently travels backwards, it will still be an incomplete pass. If all this happens beyond the LOS it will be illegal. In regards to a backwards pass. It is determined to be backwards by comparing the location it was passed to where it first touches the ground or a player. In a lot of plays the runner will release ball backwards but the momentum he has actually causes the ball to travel forward. It's not always called when this happens beyond the LOS, but those are illegal forward passes.