Incomplete pass or fumble

Warrenkicker · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 08, 2004, 09:28am

QB drops back to pass. QB is hit while his arm is moving forward, the ball goes forward and hits the ground. We would all call this incomplete. QB is hit while his arm is moving forward and the ball goes backward and hits the ground. I think we all would call this incomplete.

QB is hit before arm is moving forward and his body is turned to one side. Then he begins his motion to pass. Arm motion is in a backwards direction and ball goes backwards and hits the ground. There are no A players anywhere near in the direction his arm is moving. What is your call?

Snake~eyes · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 08, 2004, 11:15am

Fumble?

JasonTX · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 08, 2004, 11:46am

Sounds like a backwards pass and not a fumble.

ABoselli · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 08, 2004, 11:55am

Six of one and 1/2 dozen of the other. Backward pass = fumble. Live ball either way.

JRutledge · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 08, 2004, 12:18pm

Unless the arm is moving forward before contact, I am ruling a fumble. If the arm started first and the ball goes forward, then I will call it a pass.

Peace

Forksref · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 08, 2004, 06:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JasonTX
Sounds like a backwards pass and not a fumble.

Backwards pass hitting the ground = fumble.

Jim S · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 08, 2004, 07:02pm

Passing is throwing the ball. A fumble is losing ball possession other than by handing, a legal kick, or passing.
To throw the ball is an intentional act. The fact that the arm was in movement backward does not mean that the QB intended to throw the ball backwards. This is a fumble. But is all comes out the same in the wash.

Warrenkicker · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 09, 2004, 08:58am

Well it looks like everyone agrees on this one as the description was pretty clear.

Does this make it any different? QB drops back to pass. As he is raising the ball to pass it, but his arm hasn't yet started to move forward, he is hit and turned. He then starts his passing motion but his arm and the ball go backwards. This is a very bang-bang play. Any votes for this as an incomplete pass?

I have had five of these in varsity games in the past three years (lucky me I guess, three more were forward and incomplete) and I have ruled them all fumbles (or backward passes) and of course one coach was not happy. He always says that the arm was moving forward but I always saw the player turned before the arm started moving.

JasonTX · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 09, 2004, 09:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by Forksref

Quote:

Originally posted by JasonTX
Sounds like a backwards pass and not a fumble.

Backwards pass hitting the ground = fumble.

Not here in Texas. A backward pass and a fumble are two different creatures.

ABoselli · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 09, 2004, 09:56am

They're both still live, though. For fourth down fumble provisions, it makes a big difference.

As far as the "hit, passes backwards", I used to say backwards pass, but I go with incomplete. I see it as if his arm is going forward (in relation to his body) after he's been hit, I've got incomplete. I have seen the play where the QB gets swung around by the shirt and his pass comes out going backward and it looks terrible, but I'll take my licks from a coach who disagrees.

Snake~eyes · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 09, 2004, 11:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
Well it looks like everyone agrees on this one as the description was pretty clear.

Does this make it any different? QB drops back to pass. As he is raising the ball to pass it, but his arm hasn't yet started to move forward, he is hit and turned. He then starts his passing motion but his arm and the ball go backwards. This is a very bang-bang play. Any votes for this as an incomplete pass?

I have had five of these in varsity games in the past three years (lucky me I guess, three more were forward and incomplete) and I have ruled them all fumbles (or backward passes) and of course one coach was not happy. He always says that the arm was moving forward but I always saw the player turned before the arm started moving.

If the arm is moving foward before he loses posession then I am calling it incomplete.

imaref4ree · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 13, 2004, 05:16pm

It is a fumble

mcrowder · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 15, 2004, 09:46am

It shouldn't matter what his arm is doing in relation to his body... it should matter what his arm is doing in relation to the field. If he's throwing forward in relation to his body, but backward in relation to the field, this is a backward pass (live ball), not an incomplete forward pass.